How can anyone take religion seriously?
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25-01-2012, 01:28 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(24-01-2012 08:09 PM)Zat Wrote:  Many people think that religion is harmless, even though it is irrational, without realizing that it is one of the the most visible symptoms of the human disease: gullibility and lack of critical thinking.

This "disease" of gullible, non-critical thinking, produces the same mindset that also believes a group of sentient creatures must turn over all self control and responsibility to a fictitious noun. Is it any wonder, to "treat" the disease's symptoms, more words are thrown at it, as proof that this fictitious noun is not a figment of imagination, but has manifest itself in substantial significance in the physical universe?
So much time, potential, and life, is wasted on a word. Undecided

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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25-01-2012, 03:13 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(25-01-2012 12:57 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Welcome back, I was wondering where you went.

Do you think that since atheism is on the rise that people are just concluding and accepting this now since the world is getting 'smaller'?

Intolerance is on the rise, too; maybe more. Look at all the human rights violations done in the name of religion. For instance, Indonesia has arrested a man for posting that god is not real on a FB page; it violates their anti-blasphemy law.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-01-2012, 04:13 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(25-01-2012 03:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-01-2012 12:57 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  Welcome back, I was wondering where you went.

Do you think that since atheism is on the rise that people are just concluding and accepting this now since the world is getting 'smaller'?

Intolerance is on the rise, too; maybe more. Look at all the human rights violations done in the name of religion. For instance, Indonesia has arrested a man for posting that god is not real on a FB page; it violates their anti-blasphemy law.

Hmmm. I never thought about that. But, do you think this is the kind of thing that happens when a 'revolution' happens? People have enough and they push where they weren't supposed to before?

Maybe I'm being too optimistic Smile I just want my daughters to live in a world where freedom is a little more real outside of their minds.
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25-01-2012, 09:13 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
The tragedy is though that we can not solve our problems with one issue at a time.

They are all connected with a common root: education, or rather the lack of an affective one.

If, by some miracle, kids in school were raised with proper introduction to epistemology and classes in critical thinking were compulsory through ALL school years, we could solve our problems in one generation.

It is all about asking the right questions and insisting on answers.

I tried to make a list of these questions in a previous post.

“Brain Wave” is a science fiction novel by Poul Anderson, in which our Galaxy enters a region of space in which biological processes speed up and, as a result, all living beings (both humans and animals) become a lot more intelligent. As a consequence, ‘unsolvable’ human problems become solved almost immediately.

We can’t order that region of space on demand but, once we see that the solution is in education that teaches creative and critical thinking, at least we could go in the right direction.

In a way, this thread is more about critical thinking than about anything else. Religion was just an excuse for me to bring it up.

So, here are some of the questions, again, that we MUST teach our children on asking themselves and their teachers, their parents ALL THE TIME and insist on answers.

- how do you define it?
- is your definition based on reliable observation and logic?
- how do you know?
- what have you observed?
- how reliable are your sources?
- are there contradictions between these concepts?
- between a concept and your observations?
- what is the cause-and-effect chain?
- what happened before that?
- is that the simplest explanation (Ockham's Razor)?
- What probability do you assign to it?
- What other reasonable explanation can you imagine?
- Is there a limit to human understanding?
- Are we mentally equipped to observe and understand ALL of reality?
- How small are we compared to infinite space and infinite time?
- How many times have we been lied to before by authorities in politics and in religion?

Can you add a few of your own?
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26-01-2012, 08:56 AM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
Indeed, what provides comfort may not necessarily be true. An example would be "imaginary friends" some of us have as children. The imaginary world some of us fabricate brought us comfort and joy as we interact with the imaginary beings our minds crafted. The same can be seen in religion, the imaginary friend concept manifested as a deity, bringing us comfort and joy as we interact with the deity through offerings and prayers. However, tell the people you know that you believe in a God, and they are inclined to believe in you; tell the same people that you have an imaginary friend called "Rainbow Sparkle", and they brush it away as child's play.

With regards to questions, how about...
- What is the purpose of imparting a certain concept?
- Are there any facts that you were told to believe unquestioningly, without explanation?
- Are there any other better solutions to the problem?
- Are the facts presented in a way which is free from bias?

Also, welcome back, I miss your puzzles Smile

Welcome to science. You're gonna like it here - Phil Plait

Have you ever tried taking a comfort blanket away from a small child? - DLJ
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26-01-2012, 10:09 AM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(26-01-2012 08:56 AM)robotworld Wrote:  With regards to questions, how about...
- What is the purpose of imparting a certain concept?
- Are there any facts that you were told to believe unquestioningly, without explanation?
- Are there any other better solutions to the problem?
- Are the facts presented in a way which is free from bias?

Also, welcome back, I miss your puzzles Smile

I like your added questions, robotworld, very good addition.

Also, I posted a new puzzle for you in the old thread in the Coffeehouse. Smile
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26-01-2012, 08:58 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
Education; and let the boys find zero-state in the schoolyard. The way to morality, I = world. Or the way to honor, Zat. Wink

My previous post - I don't really expect anyone to 'get' it - I wuz thinking about what I said; the drama seems over the top, but it is 100% real. All there is to "I" is to matter to another "I," all one ever had to do, was become 2. Wink

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27-01-2012, 05:00 AM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(26-01-2012 08:58 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  All there is to "I" is to matter to another "I," all one ever had to do, was become 2.

"All" may be an exaggeration, Cantor, but it has been my most important part for the last 30 years. Smile
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27-01-2012, 03:11 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(27-01-2012 05:00 AM)Zat Wrote:  
(26-01-2012 08:58 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  All there is to "I" is to matter to another "I," all one ever had to do, was become 2.

"All" may be an exaggeration, Cantor, but it has been my most important part for the last 30 years. Smile

Gwynnite is, of course, an extreme case. Big Grin

"Reference the identity" would be the universal terminology. Wink

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27-01-2012, 11:18 PM
RE: How can anyone take religion seriously?
(25-01-2012 01:28 PM)kim Wrote:  
(24-01-2012 08:09 PM)Zat Wrote:  Many people think that religion is harmless, even though it is irrational, without realizing that it is one of the the most visible symptoms of the human disease: gullibility and lack of critical thinking.

This "disease" of gullible, non-critical thinking, produces the same mindset that also believes a group of sentient creatures must turn over all self control and responsibility to a fictitious noun. Is it any wonder, to "treat" the disease's symptoms, more words are thrown at it, as proof that this fictitious noun is not a figment of imagination, but has manifest itself in substantial significance in the physical universe?
So much time, potential, and life, is wasted on a word. Undecided

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”, Voltaire

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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