How can the universe be uncaused?
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22-08-2012, 03:42 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
(22-08-2012 03:39 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Again, just to remind everyone. This thread is about what you believe is the origin of the universe. I gave you my beliefs just to give a context to the question and just a quick background of my beliefs. This is why I haven't responded to those of you have posted criticisms of my view. I came to learn. Those that have posted relevant posts, I will watch the videos and come back with questions.

To reiterate: We don't know.

It is OK not to know. Really. There are several good hypotheses, but we don't know. We're working on it.

It's not OK to say "It must be X" when there is no evidence. Philosophy is not evidence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-08-2012, 03:43 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
(22-08-2012 03:20 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  You'll have to do better to make him disappear in a puff of smoke.

I was just using his own logic. Dodgy

(22-08-2012 03:39 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Again, just to remind everyone. This thread is about what you believe is the origin of the universe. I gave you my beliefs just to give a context to the question and just a quick background of my beliefs. This is why I haven't responded to those of you have posted criticisms of my view. I came to learn. Those that have posted relevant posts, I will watch the videos and come back with questions.

That isn't how internet forums work. If you make extraordinary claims, you have to accept criticisms of them.
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22-08-2012, 03:47 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
I think there are only 2 choices:

1) You have to go back to something that was first, be that the universe itself, God, or something else. That first thing, whatever it is, would have to be uncaused.

2) You have to go outside the concept of time and thus there is no "first" and the whole idea of causation probably changes.

If number 1 is true, then I think it's likely that the universe is the thing that was uncaused. There is no reason to make up a god to explain this and there is no evidence to support that there is a god. Without a god, what could possibly exist besides the universe? Maybe a bigger universe? Whatever it is would be equally difficult to imagine as being uncaused.

If number 2 is true, I can't offer further explanation because that's difficult to fathom. On the other hand, the beginning of time which would presumably exist in option 1 is equally difficult to fathom.

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22-08-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
(22-08-2012 03:39 PM)TrueReason Wrote:  Again, just to remind everyone. This thread is about what you believe is the origin of the universe. I gave you my beliefs just to give a context to the question and just a quick background of my beliefs. This is why I haven't responded to those of you have posted criticisms of my view. I came to learn. Those that have posted relevant posts, I will watch the videos and come back with questions.

Learn from our criticisms.

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22-08-2012, 04:02 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
"I believe that the universe must be caused by something that is not part of the physical universe because the universe (the result) cannot be its own cause."

You can believe that if you want, but all it does is show your ignorance of physics. You are trying to apply your everyday "common sense" about how the world works to an incredibly complex problem in the realm of quantum physics.

In fact I would propose that this is a meaningless discussion and thread. The mathematics and understanding of physics needed to comprehend this subject are obviously WAY above your current education, and that isn't an insult, it is a very hard subject. It is way above the current level of education for most people. However you have also demonstrated that you are unwilling to recognize the expertise of those who HAVE taken the time to be educated enough to understand the subject, and are telling you you're wrong. Sorry, do you honestly think that your opinion of the matter has any meaning in the face of some of the greatest minds the human race has ever produced who have spent their entire life working on the problem?

What do you do for a living? What have you spent your entire life becoming an expert at? If someone who had no expertise or training in your profession came up to you and tried to tell you are wrong but had no evidence whatsoever to back it up would you take them seriously?
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22-08-2012, 04:10 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
Have you read Krauss' "A Universe from Nothing" ?
If not, why not. If yes, what exactly do you disagree with ?

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22-08-2012, 04:13 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
I should feel ashamed for not having read "A Universe from Nothing" as of now.

I'll get to it as soon as possible, I promise! Sadcryface2

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22-08-2012, 04:17 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?




With this theory, the universe would never have needed a beginning. No first cause required. Bang/Crunch/Bang/Crunch ad infinitum. If it is true, an eternity of expansions and collapses that never had a beginning renders your need for a creator meaningless.

It is also a bit depressing, as everything we ever can create (or has been created by others) will eventually lead to nothingness. Every piece of music, every philosophical advance, every sonnet... all gone in an inevitable and unavoidable crunch.

On the plus side, perhaps the next universe won't contain an Earth-like planet with citizens that insist that the whole fucking thing was created by their god purposefully for them. We can but hope.
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22-08-2012, 04:22 PM
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
The Big Crunch hypothesis is unlikely. It is more far more probable that the Universe will be disrupted by entropy or that it will be ripped apart because of its rapidly increasing expansion.

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22-08-2012, 04:32 PM (This post was last modified: 22-08-2012 05:43 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: How can the universe be uncaused?
Another from "nothing" idea. Also I have to stress the universe is not uncaused, but has a cause, according to science as we now understand it.



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