How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
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03-04-2013, 01:14 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 01:23 PM by Vera.)
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
(03-04-2013 12:55 PM)morondog Wrote:  I like about church is for example, that you know, the fat kid isn't teased and there's flowers in the hall in memorial for someone's mother and everyone gets together after the sermon for a biscuit... you meet people you'd otherwise not really care about. You meet lonely little old ladies and chat to them about life during the war... someone makes sure they get home safe and maybe takes them shopping... It's great community and it's something that I do feel is missing... I don't naturally do that stuff...

Well, this is exactly where the problem is, isn't? Why do we need another reason to care about each other, to want to talk to the lonely little old lady and not tease the overweight kid, other than, you know, that they are our fellow human beings? Why do we need ties other than our common biology?

Communities like this, despite their seeming niceness, are symptomatic of the worst instinct of humankind, the tribal, us-or-them one. We only take care of our own, the rest can go to... hm, yeah. My family, my neighbours, my tribe, those who share the same faith. How about those who share the same earth and the same flesh and blood?

To my thinking, you do not need a reason to like a person. You need a reason not to like them. But what do I know...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-04-2013, 01:25 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
ya know. You encourage that Ghost guy... he's just gonna post some more nonsense. Dodgy

Like, "aggie?" Bu then, you post something of which he doesn't approve; and then he's "all-knowing," and shit... I mean, WTF?!?!

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03-04-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
(03-04-2013 01:25 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ya know. You encourage that Ghost guy... he's just gonna post some more nonsense. Dodgy

Like, "aggie?" Bu then, you post something of which he doesn't approve; and then he's "all-knowing," and shit... I mean, WTF?!?!

Ggh... was talking to the moron. You have a beef with it/me? Dodgy

Also, why didn't anyone inform me I needed to ask your permission before posting?

But also, I kinda hear you.

Oh, and another thing - what is aggie?!?!?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-04-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
Amway.

That's your answer.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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03-04-2013, 01:38 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
(03-04-2013 01:34 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 01:25 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  ya know. You encourage that Ghost guy... he's just gonna post some more nonsense. Dodgy

Like, "aggie?" Bu then, you post something of which he doesn't approve; and then he's "all-knowing," and shit... I mean, WTF?!?!

Ggh... was talking to the moron. You have a beef with it/me? Dodgy

Also, why didn't anyone inform me I needed to ask your permission before posting?

But also, I kinda hear you.

Oh, and another thing - what is aggie?!?!?

*agnostic

Vera... Vera... what has become of you?
Does anyone else in here
feel the way I do

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03-04-2013, 01:44 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
... I'm not the nicest human being is all. I don't routinely look out for people. If they cross my path, maybe, but I don't introduce myself to random strangers and learn about their lives - at church people do... I'd like to have a thing like church but without the religion... probably not gonna be everyone's cup of tea...

It's not about reasons to like people, it's about... reasons to care about them. As much as I try, a person several thousand km away whom I've never met dying in terrible pain just doesn't move me that much. I don't like to think about it but I get on with my life. And stuff much nearer to home is the same...
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03-04-2013, 01:56 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
(03-04-2013 01:38 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Vera... Vera... what has become of you?
Does anyone else in here
feel the way I do
Nearly everyone does, Johnny. Drinking Beverage

We were talking about abject hatred, right?

(03-04-2013 01:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  ... I'm not the nicest human being is all.

Well, you ain't a human being at all, you're a dog, so you're excused Tongue
Quote:I don't routinely look out for people. If they cross my path, maybe, but I don't introduce myself to random strangers and learn about their lives - at church people do... I'd like to have a thing like church but without the religion... probably not gonna be everyone's cup of tea...

It's not about reasons to like people, it's about... reasons to care about them. As much as I try, a person several thousand km away whom I've never met dying in terrible pain just doesn't move me that much. I don't like to think about it but I get on with my life. And stuff much nearer to home is the same...

And now you're just playing dumb (or maybe not playing at all Tongue ). Of course that's not what I meant. I don't mean you have to start weeping for all the suffering in the world (though the thought of it is sometimes enough to make one weep). And no, you don't need to introduce yourself to strangers and try to help (hey, that may very easily land you in jail Tongue ), but showing consideration and trying to alleviate suffering when you see it, should come naturally and not be contingent on the other person's faith, race, connection to you, etc.

Of course we care more about those we know and love, all I was saying is that we should be able to feel sympathy for everyone, simply because they are our fellow human beings, not because we share an imaginary friend.

Ah, I wanted to say more, but brain's turned into mush...
"The time is gone
The song is over
Thought I'd something more to say..."


(See, Johnny, I, too, can quote Floyd Dodgy )

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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03-04-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
(03-04-2013 01:56 PM)Vera Wrote:  showing consideration and trying to alleviate suffering when you see it, should come naturally and not be contingent on the other person's faith, race, connection to you, etc.

Of course we care more about those we know and love, all I was saying is that we should be able to feel sympathy for everyone, simply because they are our fellow human beings, not because we share an imaginary friend.

Yes, OK. All *I* want is the community inclusiveness of church to *make* me hang out with people and maybe be nice to them (and coincidentally to force them to hang out with me Evil_monster ) without the imaginary friend... I think we're on the same side Smile
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03-04-2013, 02:20 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
(03-04-2013 02:11 PM)morondog Wrote:  Yes, OK. All *I* want is the community inclusiveness of church to *make* me hang out with people and maybe be nice to them (and coincidentally to force them to hang out with me Evil_monster ) without the imaginary friend...

I think you're talking about two separate things:
1. Being nice to people: that should be a given, regardless of who the other person is (unless it's Sarah Palin or something Dodgy ). This inclusive should be the result of us all being the same species.

2. Wanting to hang out with people? Totally different story. Mere (shared) biology is nowhere near enough. Not in my case anyway.

Okay, now I reread it, the last sentence so can be interpreted in a totally different way Blink

Quote:I think we're on the same side Smile

Yep. The dark side.



Of the moon. Drinking Beverage

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04-04-2013, 01:00 PM
RE: How can we Atheists provide an alternative?
Hey, ramblin moron.

Yeah, community is important. Someone once said that we're heading for a time in which all relations will be economic. I can't think of a worse hell on Earth than that..... but the signs are getting louder Sad

On the downside front, all groups are in competition. So there's always going to be a degree of demonising the Other. Preferably it doesn't go as far as dehumanising them, but there ain't nothin wrong with a little conflict and a little competition.

Hey, Vera.

Well, we need a reason other than our biology because altruism, in the biological imperative sense, only extends to kin selection. All other bonds are cultural.

Daniel Quinn once pointed out (and I'm paraphrasing; he didn't use the word "people") that the difference between a community and a people is that a people make their living together and a community is a group of LIKE MINDED people.

The Thinking Atheist, for example, is an online community. All of the people here are united in the fact that they enjoy discussing religion and associated topics.

Anyhoo, in order to create bonds beyond kin selection, we need cultural structures in place. Community building is an important tool in that pursuit.

Oh, and an aggie is an Agnostic. I HAVE SPOKEN!!!





Hey, Cantor.

You should know by now that I don't exist and that I'm just another alias you use to plant disinformation.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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