How can you argue against a Christian when...
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25-05-2011, 05:29 PM
 
Question How can you argue against a Christian when...
How can you argue against a Christian when their rebuttals consist of explanations like "well I can't prove it scientifically because God transcends all known laws" and generally anything which says "I can't prove it in any way at all but that's because God is all powerful and is beyond science"? What arguments would you pose towards someone making this point? I find it incredibly hard to debate with any Christian without my blood boiling since their points aren't supported by any sort of empirical evidence and it's just bullshit claims from the Bible, nothing tangible. What points would you guys make against something making these claims? I'm hoping these forums can help me construct some more effective arguments.
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25-05-2011, 05:51 PM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
(25-05-2011 05:29 PM)Joe Wrote:  How can you argue against a Christian when their rebuttals consist of explanations like "well I can't prove it scientifically because God transcends all known laws" and generally anything which says "I can't prove it in any way at all but that's because God is all powerful and is beyond science"? What arguments would you pose towards someone making this point?

Say "Fine. Then you admit that not only is there no evidence for your god, but there can never be. If you want to believe in something that does not and cannot even begin to be proven, go right ahead. Just be aware that the rest of the world will regard that as crazy."

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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25-05-2011, 05:53 PM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
Pat them on their back, congratulate them on their impressive amount faith, but explain that you prefer to live in reality(You know, where you actually need some sort of reason to believe something exists).

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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25-05-2011, 06:01 PM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
Well, first of all, greetings Joe and welcome to the forum Smile.

My objection to this kind of argument is pretty simple but at least it has worked for me so far.

How do you know that "god" its outside time, space and human comprehension? And yet you claim to know that entity when you grant those atributes to that being. If they claim that they know that because of faith, then the burden of proof is upon them. If they claim that is by faith, then you have your point, because faith is built upon assertions and claims with no evidence.

Some of them probably would start pulling out metaphysical arguments for this, stating that metaphysics study things beyond materialistic reality and that kind of stuff, if that is the case, I think you could find useful stuff within Kant's critique to metaphysics IMO.

Peace.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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25-05-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
Why the need to argue?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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25-05-2011, 06:50 PM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
(25-05-2011 06:17 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Why the need to argue?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt


Because Christianity teaches terrible things and remains an oil spill in the ocean of intellectual progression.

[Image: westboro_baptist_church_drones_church.jpg]

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[Image: 6a00d8341c730253ef0133f4b3bc8d970b-800wi]

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"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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25-05-2011, 09:55 PM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
Hey, Buddy.

Don't throw propaganda at me in the guise of reasonable discussion. You insult us both.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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26-05-2011, 09:25 AM
 
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
Well, whenever I argue with Theists and they bring up this argument, here are the arguments I try to use. See if they make sense to you.

1) If your God belongs to another realm and he transcends all laws of the physical world, then how do you claim to know eternal truth's of his existence, from praying in the Physical world ?
2) I don't care if God transcends Science and physical nature and is in a different realm. But, theists claim God intervenes in the physical world, which is the realm of science and reason. We should be able to deduce from scientific indirect inference, all his interventions,but we see none of them. Why ?
3) Since they claim to know through their magic books what God's will is, then why is that their God wants to hide from his own creation. Its sounds nonsensical to me. Big Grin
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26-05-2011, 11:37 AM
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
Perhaps an alternate approach would be not to refute the existence of God, but to debate under the assumption that 'If God really exists...'

There are literally hundreds of quotes you could take from the bible that cast severe doubt on the purity and goodness of the deity they choose to worship. A quick glace at the Skeptics Annotated Bible or better still, read through 'Drunk With Blood: God's Killings in the Bible'. It's entertaining and gives you a lot of examples of the sheer awfulness of the bible god.

Why won't God heal amputees?
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26-05-2011, 11:44 AM
 
RE: How can you argue against a Christian when...
(25-05-2011 06:50 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  [Image: westboro_baptist_church_drones_church.jpg]

I dunno if it's the messages conveyed on the banners, if it's the the fact that children are holding them, if it's the policemen in the background that somehow contribute to the seriousness of the "message" or if it's the smile on the girl's face on the right that bother me the most, but this picture is A B Y S M A L L Y A B H O R R E N T! Angry
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