How come I'm not an atheist?
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11-05-2017, 01:30 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(10-05-2017 06:50 PM)MustangManda Wrote:  Atheist somehow felt like a much more confrontational term, and Christians reacted much more strongly to it, so it was simply easier to identify as agnostic.

Not surprising: there was a time when you could lose your job, be black-balled from certain professions, and prohibited from running for public office if you claimed to be, or were outed as an atheist. It's still a "trigger" word for some people.

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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11-05-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(10-05-2017 10:34 AM)ResidentEvilFan Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 09:32 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Atheists don't "believe" no god exists, any more than anyone "believes" no Sparkly Pink Unicorns exist. The notion is simply dismissed, as undefined and preposterous. There is no reason to take a position on something that is undefined and incoherent. The absence of something is not a something.

I believe no Sparkly Pink Unicorns exist.

I mean everyone knows they aren't sparkly, they are shiny.

Are you referring to the Invisible Pink Unicorn? I know she exists, but some sects foolishly believe she either sparkles are is shiny. Her Majesty is INVISIBLE!

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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11-05-2017, 02:09 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(10-05-2017 07:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  Gödel has proven that if a system is consistent, then not all true statements of that system can be proven. So that blows your thesis out of the water.

Consistency is boring. Completeness is a lot more fun. Smile

#sigh
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11-05-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
When people ask me why I'm an atheist I tell them I'm not. I'm a pretheist. All this talk of God is premature as long as you're selling me some bullshit promise of a postmortem preservation of personal identity that requires substance dualism. Substance dualism is untenable and indefensible. Many have tried. All have failed. Come back after you stop trying to sell me bullshit by calling it caviar and we can talk. And if I can still smell you coming a mile away upwind then don't even bother.

They all go away quietly.

#sigh
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11-05-2017, 04:19 PM
How come I'm not an atheist?
(11-05-2017 01:26 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(10-05-2017 04:52 PM)Rachel Wrote:  Since you have no belief in a god, you are an atheist. You can call yourself whatever you like. You can call yourself an aardvark if you want, but that pesky lack of belief drops you into the atheist category. Sorry to disappoint.

But is he an aardvark atheist, or an aardvark agnostic? Tongue


He might be an atheist lizard and own atheist lawn furniture and atheist rocks.
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11-05-2017, 05:14 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(11-05-2017 04:19 PM)Rachel Wrote:  He might be an atheist lizard and own atheist lawn furniture and atheist rocks.

Always go for the complete experience!

Cool
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11-05-2017, 06:39 PM
How come I'm not an atheist?
(11-05-2017 05:14 PM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  
(11-05-2017 04:19 PM)Rachel Wrote:  He might be an atheist lizard and own atheist lawn furniture and atheist rocks.

Always go for the complete experience!

Cool


If something works, stick with it!
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11-05-2017, 07:35 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(10-05-2017 06:09 AM)Vera Wrote:  What I don't get is why people are so obsessed with labels. And more importantly - with labeling themselves.

"You can call me an atheist all you like, but I am not "an atheist" - the thing is, I highly doubt anyone here wants to call you anything or cares one way or another.

Also - ideologically distant? There's no atheist ideology and frankly, what's the point of spending you painfully short days on this earth, obsessing over what ideology to choose (or even wanting to tie yourself to an ideology, whatever the hell that means).

Oh thank goodness you said it. All I could think was I don't care what anyone decides to call themselves. We're all basically, if you don't believe in god(s), atheist. Agnostic is a meaningless word. I'm growing annoyed with that silly fence sitters who seem to think that they're open to anything. If your bar for lack of belief is so low that you can jump back and forth between it, I don't really give a shit.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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11-05-2017, 08:02 PM
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(11-05-2017 04:19 PM)Rachel Wrote:  
(11-05-2017 01:26 PM)Dr H Wrote:  But is he an aardvark atheist, or an aardvark agnostic? Tongue


He might be an atheist lizard and own atheist lawn furniture and atheist rocks.

ROTFL! Big Grin

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"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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12-05-2017, 06:08 AM (This post was last modified: 12-05-2017 06:14 AM by Naielis.)
RE: How come I'm not an atheist?
(10-05-2017 04:13 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  I'm an agnostic: I don't believe that a god does exist, and I don't believe that a god doesn't exist, "god" meaning an intelligent creator/originator/cause/whatever to the universe. Now, by most of your guys' definition of "atheist" as "lack of belief in god", I would be an atheist, but that's not the only definition and its not the definition I find useful. For me at least. I'm only emphasizing this now because I personally hear the same rhetoric over and over again when I express my agnosticism. I recognize agnostic atheism is a thing, I was one, but I'm not that. You can call me an atheist all you like, but I am not "an atheist".

Anyway, that's what my question is all about actually: why am I an agnostic and not an atheist? What is the fundamental reason for me separating myself from atheists? Because even if I also "lack belief in god", I find myself disagreeing time and time again with a good number of people who "lack belief in god". I don't simply dismiss the classical arguments for god (cosmological, teleological, etc.); I prioritize logical and epistemic possibility over physical possibility, such that I consider metaphysical and potentially/probably unobservable possibilities and build models with them; similarly, I am more interested in mathematics and logic rather than science.

What this all comes down to, it seems, is that I am more concerned with consistency than I am with truth. That's not to say I don't care about truth, obviously if I find something to be true it can't be dismissed. But take Matt Dillahunty's saying for a second: "I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible." The problem I have with this philosophy is that it seems that by trying to not believe false things, it halts abstract or creative thinking, thinking about things in theory so that perhaps you will stumble upon some underlying truth. Essentially, you don't consider things that might or might not be true, you only consider things that can be shown to be true. But I personally don't mind considering things that have even a probability of being false, and so possibly ending up believing things that happen to be false, so long as I am discovering true things and building models based on valid reasoning.

So I don't know, and I'm trying to figure it out. Why do I feel so ideologically distant from the group that champions skepticism, science, logic, reason, etc. etc. and with which I generally agree with when it comes to mystical/supernatural stuff. Does it have to do with the fact that I simply don't believe either way on the existence of gods, where atheists do believe that no god exists? Am I not as realist as atheists such that I dream up nice-looking possibilities that have no basis in reality? I don't consider myself a skeptic either, does that have to do with it?

I've heard good arguments made that the historical definition of atheism referred to a denial or rejection of a god rather than just a lack of belief. But people who harp on this in debate are just wasting time. What's important here is how we actually arrive at truth or whether we can at all. If you ever want to make yourself less sure about things, just research philosophy. It could help sort some things out if you're trying to understand reality. But it will give you a questioning attitude.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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