"How could you believe that?"
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07-12-2012, 01:55 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:49 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Nope. It's applying rationale as best I can to something that is irrational. Our PHYSICAL selfs can't understand the METAPHYSICAL or affect it; however, we can use our understanding and logic of the PHYSICAL to try and reason the METAPHYSICAL.

Which is how, again, claiming that God created evolution is a metaphysical claim.


But it is not a purely metaphysical claim.
The explanation for evolution is an explanation about the self-organizing nature of matter and systems.
By claiming God created it, you are denying a physical explanation. Hence, your metaphysical claim just crossed the line.

A purely metaphysical claim would be as to whether God has a blond beard or a grey beard - or any beard at all.
This goes back to them affecting each other.

God affecting the physical world is metaphysics.

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07-12-2012, 02:28 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
"I don't know" is still not an answer.

The fact that this is the only response we can give has no bearing on the truth and does not mean that any speculation is any better. I accept that people can't accept that answer sometimes, but that doesn't mean trying to answer it with metaphysical claims has even one iota of a shred of plausibility. And even that can be determined because its very nature is as a figment on ones imagination, outside of all known realities and no more viable an explanation than The Matrix.

It means that the YEC are as valid as the others, because by your reasoning, the metaphysical claim that "god did it" is as valid as "god did it and he did it so it would look like he didn't."

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07-12-2012, 02:31 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
You seem to have come full circle in your metaphysical claims that metaphysics can explain questions about physical realities but not be impacted by physical realities because we can't know anything for certain about the metaphysical but it is a better answer than "I don't know" because that answer is unacceptable to me so I use the physical evidence in the physical world to explain the metaphysical which is unknowable but impacts the physical.

My brain is going to explode from the circular hypocrisy of that reasoning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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07-12-2012, 02:33 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
My head hurts, I need beer and whiskey.

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07-12-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And, I didn't say it made complete sense, I said it made the most with what we have. Basically, use the tools that we have at our disposal to try and given a satisfactory answer to "I don't know".
Oh, really? "Magic man did it!" is the best and most satisfactory answer "we" have come up with? Metaphysical answers make no sense because they have no explanatory power. All they do is raise more difficult and unanswerable questions.

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07-12-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:28 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "I don't know" is still not an answer.

The fact that this is the only response we can give has no bearing on the truth and does not mean that any speculation is any better. I accept that people can't accept that answer sometimes, but that doesn't mean trying to answer it with metaphysical claims has even one iota of a shred of plausibility. And even that can be determined because its very nature is as a figment on ones imagination, outside of all known realities and no more viable an explanation than The Matrix.

It means that the YEC are as valid as the others, because by your reasoning, the metaphysical claim that "god did it" is as valid as "god did it and he did it so it would look like he didn't."
And you would be correct.

But, when you get into YEC vs EC then you also have to deal with theology and Bible stuff as well as science.

But yeah, one metaphysical claim is no different than another.

Saying "God did it" is exactly the same as saying "Aliens did it".

Christians use their faith to rationalize the claim.

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07-12-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
So your claims are no more valid than a YEC's claims? This does not bode well for your claims.

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07-12-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  My head hurts, I need beer and whiskey.
I have some Gentleman Jack at home. Come to BR, we'll drink and discuss metaphysics and physics.

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07-12-2012, 02:38 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:34 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  And, I didn't say it made complete sense, I said it made the most with what we have. Basically, use the tools that we have at our disposal to try and given a satisfactory answer to "I don't know".
Oh, really? "Magic man did it!" is the best and most satisfactory answer "we" have come up with? Metaphysical answers make no sense because they have no explanatory power. All they do is raise more difficult and unanswerable questions.
No.

This makes the most sense for a Christian.

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07-12-2012, 02:40 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So your claims are no more valid than a YEC's claims? This does not bode well for your claims.
My metaphysical claims by themselves, no.

My metaphysical claims that are backed by a standard Christian authority as well as physical claims, yes.

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