"How could you believe that?"
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07-12-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
Gentlemen Jack is damn fine choice. Louisiana is a bit far of a drive for that glass though. I'll hold up one tonight in honor of that offer though, just hope the man in the metaphysical world doesn't interfere with the physical world and drink it before I get a chance. Oh god, now I'm really worried about that happening.

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07-12-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
But if your metaphysical claims are backed by some Christian authority and theirs are backed by some Christian authority, and both use the assertion that the metaphysical being has granted them special insight, then both make a claim based on the same level of authority.

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07-12-2012, 02:44 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:41 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Gentlemen Jack is damn fine choice. Louisiana is a bit far of a drive for that glass though. I'll hold up one tonight in honor of that offer though, just hope the man in the metaphysical world doesn't interfere with the physical world and drink it before I get a chance. Oh god, now I'm really worried about that happening.
We could always talk about quantum stuff.

Yeah, Gentleman Jack is some great stuff. I do like my whiskey, brandy, and rum Smile

I actually like Jack better than Crown.

But anyway, LA isn't THAT far... heh, c'mon down!

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07-12-2012, 02:47 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
I like Crown but have never drank too much brandy. Maybe I'll grab some on my way home.

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07-12-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:44 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But if your metaphysical claims are backed by some Christian authority and theirs are backed by some Christian authority, and both use the assertion that the metaphysical being has granted them special insight, then both make a claim based on the same level of authority.
Yep. Which is why you have the divisions to begin with.

But, then it begins to get even more convoluted when you start examining interpretations... and then whether or not all the Bible is completely literal... and then whether or not to consider the history of the books and how they were written... and then decide whether or not some of the Bible is allegorical.

So, with all of this, certain subsections of Christianity can throw their weight around as make claims of being more correct due to the alignment with scripture, history, and science instead of just being aligned with scripture.

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07-12-2012, 02:57 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 02:47 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I like Crown but have never drank too much brandy. Maybe I'll grab some on my way home.
Get some E&J's Very Special. Good stuff. It's sweet, though.

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07-12-2012, 03:02 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How can you justify using the physical world to make a claim about a nonphysical one?

That is not rationale, that is holding one thing (the physical world) up to one set of standards (evidence) and another thing (the metaphysical) up to another (assertions without evidence).
Because we have no other answer besides, "I don't know."

For as long as humans have existed, this has never been sufficient. Which is why metaphysics exists.

And, I didn't say it made complete sense, I said it made the most with what we have. Basically, use the tools that we have at our disposal to try and given a satisfactory answer to "I don't know".
"I don't know" is not a fucking question.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2012, 03:03 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
So,
A) I though we had already established that neither were aligned with science
B) given the nature of the metaphysical claims, the above is irrelevant anyways
C) given the nature of metaphysical claims, nothing can actually be known because the claim of "god did it and did it so it would look like he didn't" is always valid. So we can never determine anything about reality nor discern fact from fiction.
D) We end up in a whole new argument of arguing about the bible now as some form of useful information in discerning fact from fiction and fantasy from reality despite being unable to discern reality from fantasy because of the nature of metaphysics.

There is another possibility though.
A) all metaphysical claims are bunk

Ocam's razor. The last possibility is simpler, let's just go with that.

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07-12-2012, 03:39 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 03:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:53 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Because we have no other answer besides, "I don't know."

For as long as humans have existed, this has never been sufficient. Which is why metaphysics exists.

And, I didn't say it made complete sense, I said it made the most with what we have. Basically, use the tools that we have at our disposal to try and given a satisfactory answer to "I don't know".
"I don't know" is not a fucking question.
I know. But it's not a sufficient answer for those seeking an answer. I mean, it's technically correct, but there are people that want answer to the unanswerable.

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07-12-2012, 03:43 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 03:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 03:02 PM)Chas Wrote:  "I don't know" is not a fucking question.
I know. But it's not a sufficient answer for those seeking an answer. I mean, it's technically correct, but there are people that want answer to the unanswerable.
Too bad for them. It's not 'technically correct', it's correct.

"I don't know" is an invitation to inquiry, a call for "let's find out".

"God did it" is the end of inquiry, a barring of the path to knowledge.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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