"How could you believe that?"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-12-2012, 01:14 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:07 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Okay, I'll take that it's not metaphysical and that it's a verbal blank, but in the same vein, why is saying "God did it" physical?

It's a metaphysical claim, so it's theology.


Because it attributes causality of something in the physical world to something for which there is no evidence of existence.

Therefore, it is a claim about physical reality.
But it's not a physical claim.

It is completely metaphysical. The subject of the claim doesn't matter, it's the claim itself that matters.

This may seem like splitting hairs, but apparently, we have to.

I mean... for instance... Ghost Hunters who use science and technology to bolster their claims about ghosts. They aren't making physical claims. They're making metaphysical claims using attributes of the physical world.

[Image: vjp09.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
"They're making metaphysical claims using attributes of the physical world."


No, they're making metaphysical claims about things in the real world.


Saying that "God did it" means you are applying a metaphysical cause to a physical phenomenon.

Evolve
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:17 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because it attributes causality of something in the physical world to something for which there is no evidence of existence.

Therefore, it is a claim about physical reality.
But it's not a physical claim.

It is completely metaphysical. The subject of the claim doesn't matter, it's the claim itself that matters.

This may seem like splitting hairs, but apparently, we have to.

I mean... for instance... Ghost Hunters who use science and technology to bolster their claims about ghosts. They aren't making physical claims. They're making metaphysical claims using attributes of the physical world.
What the actual fuck?

These are claims about the physical world. If their instruments can detect 'ghosts', then there is an effect in the physical world.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:18 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Saying that "God did it" means you are applying a metaphysical cause to a physical phenomenon.
Which makes it a metaphysical claim.

[Image: vjp09.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
About the physical world, making it a claim about the physical world.

That's like saying that making the claim that sunlight is warm is a claim about the sun, but not about its physical effect felt here on Earth.

Evolve
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:18 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:16 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Saying that "God did it" means you are applying a metaphysical cause to a physical phenomenon.
Which makes it a metaphysical claim.
Which makes it a claim about the physical universe. It makes the claim that there is something which has physical manifestations, that affects the physical universe.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:22 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
DAMN you think like a genius Chas. Not that I am biased or anything...

Evolve
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:23 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:14 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  But it's not a physical claim.

It is completely metaphysical. The subject of the claim doesn't matter, it's the claim itself that matters.

This may seem like splitting hairs, but apparently, we have to.

I mean... for instance... Ghost Hunters who use science and technology to bolster their claims about ghosts. They aren't making physical claims. They're making metaphysical claims using attributes of the physical world.
What the actual fuck?

These are claims about the physical world. If their instruments can detect 'ghosts', then there is an effect in the physical world.
Their instruments can't detect ghost because the physical cannot detect the metaphysical. They are using science to bolster a metaphysical claim.

It goes like this:

Q: Are there ghost?

A scientist would say based on the empirical evidence the answer would be "no"; however, I cannot answer that question absolutely so I would have to say "I don't know".

A person who believed in ghosts would say "yes". And then, in order to gain validity, they would try to use science (because science is physical) to boost their claims of the metaphysical.

But, all their experiments and science doesn't make any type of physical claim... it only makes metaphysical claims.

[Image: vjp09.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-12-2012, 01:23 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:22 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  DAMN you think like a genius Chas. Not that I am biased or anything...


Aw, shucks. Blush

Apparently not everyone agrees, though. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
07-12-2012, 01:26 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
If it has a manifestation in the physical world, or has some impact on the physical world, then any claim made about it is a claim about some aspect of the physical world and related phenomena.

Were it a claim completely outside of all physical realities as we know it, then you could claim it to be a nonphysical and purely metaphysical claim, but you can't have it both ways that metaphysics can exist in the physical world and not subject to it, and outside of it and unimpacted by it. If you want to make that claim, then I expect to see evidence of it. And that should be doable as that claim implies it manifests itself in the physical world in a knowable way.

Evolve
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: