"How could you believe that?"
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07-12-2012, 01:37 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:31 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "The physical has a set of determined rules and standards; metaphysics does not - which is why it can very much affect the physical without being affected."


Here is a claim about the knowledge of the unknowable metaphysical. If it is unknowable, how can anything about it be known? It is a concept outside of reality.
Thank you!

The unknowable claim that God created evolution is outside any provable evidence of physical reality; thus, making it a metaphysical claim.
Now I am really baffled. You can't know anything about it, but you still makes claims about it. Is there a term for this...maybe cognitive dissonance?

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07-12-2012, 01:40 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:36 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And how would the lack of rules allow it to interact with the physical universe but not be impacted itself? Do you have any examples where something has an impact on something else with no impact on itself?

And it is a claim about the physical world if it is a claim about something in it.
Of course I don't. And, the lack of rules presents an endless circle. It could be affect the physical without being affect as well as affecting the physical and being affected.

But that's not the issue. The issue is that it COULD not be affect, so that has to be taken into consideration. Saying that it HAS to affect the physical is wrong.

With that in mind, if it has the potential to affect the physical without being affected, then my claim stands that God created evolution is a metaphysical claim.

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07-12-2012, 01:41 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I like your like of the post were you say you liked my like.
I liked your like of the like of the post were I said I liked your like.

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07-12-2012, 01:43 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Thank you!

The unknowable claim that God created evolution is outside any provable evidence of physical reality; thus, making it a metaphysical claim.
Now I am really baffled. You can't know anything about it, but you still makes claims about it. Is there a term for this...maybe cognitive dissonance?
Nope. It's applying rationale as best I can to something that is irrational. Our PHYSICAL selfs can't understand the METAPHYSICAL or affect it; however, we can use our understanding and logic of the PHYSICAL to try and reason the METAPHYSICAL.

Which is how, again, claiming that God created evolution is a metaphysical claim.

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07-12-2012, 01:46 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
But by that reasoning, I can make any claim about it and it is just as correct as your claim. The metaphysical world is pink with unicorns and they run through the physical world causing people to have seizures.

It is just as valid as "god did it" with respect to evolution because I am saying that they effect the physical world in a way that creates seizures but they are not in turn impacted and can not be quantified.

It is an unnecessary claim that has no basis in anything other than the imagination.

I plan to like your post about me liking your post of my like that you liked.

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07-12-2012, 01:46 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
How can you justify using the physical world to make a claim about a nonphysical one?

That is not rationale, that is holding one thing (the physical world) up to one set of standards (evidence) and another thing (the metaphysical) up to another (assertions without evidence).

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07-12-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:43 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 01:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Now I am really baffled. You can't know anything about it, but you still makes claims about it. Is there a term for this...maybe cognitive dissonance?
Nope. It's applying rationale as best I can to something that is irrational. Our PHYSICAL selfs can't understand the METAPHYSICAL or affect it; however, we can use our understanding and logic of the PHYSICAL to try and reason the METAPHYSICAL.

Which is how, again, claiming that God created evolution is a metaphysical claim.


But it is not a purely metaphysical claim.
The explanation for evolution is an explanation about the self-organizing nature of matter and systems.
By claiming God created it, you are denying a physical explanation. Hence, your metaphysical claim just crossed the line.

A purely metaphysical claim would be as to whether God has a blond beard or a grey beard - or any beard at all.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-12-2012, 01:49 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But by that reasoning, I can make any claim about it and it is just as correct as your claim. The metaphysical world is pink with unicorns and they run through the physical world causing people to have seizures.

It is just as valid as "god did it" with respect to evolution because I am saying that they effect the physical world in a way that creates seizures but they are not in turn impacted and can not be quantified.

It is an unnecessary claim that has no basis in anything other than the imagination.
Yes.

But, because of faith, Christians will rationalize how God fits into the picture.

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07-12-2012, 01:51 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
They can't rationalize how it fits, they just shove it in when it is unnecessary.

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07-12-2012, 01:53 PM
RE: "How could you believe that?"
(07-12-2012 01:46 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  How can you justify using the physical world to make a claim about a nonphysical one?

That is not rationale, that is holding one thing (the physical world) up to one set of standards (evidence) and another thing (the metaphysical) up to another (assertions without evidence).
Because we have no other answer besides, "I don't know."

For as long as humans have existed, this has never been sufficient. Which is why metaphysics exists.

And, I didn't say it made complete sense, I said it made the most with what we have. Basically, use the tools that we have at our disposal to try and given a satisfactory answer to "I don't know".

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