How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
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22-09-2012, 04:07 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2012 04:11 PM by tazmin98.)
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
(22-09-2012 04:03 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  A religious experience is internal to a person and is therefore not objective evidence.
There is no way to tell if that person experienced anything other than a transient emotional state.

It is not that any one's experience can be debunked, it is that it just isn't objective evidence of anything. All religious experiences are of no evidentiary value.
Word.

As for the video of the Baby, do you have a source on that? Based on all those years of biology, I think I can safely say that it's entirely impossible for a human whose brain has been deprived of oxygen for several hours to become active again as if nothing happened. The damage done after reviving someone after a couple of minutes can already be devastating.

I will try to find. All I know is the mother had twins and the boy didn't survive. It was in Australia

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22-09-2012, 04:14 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
(22-09-2012 04:03 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 02:30 PM)Chas Wrote:  A religious experience is internal to a person and is therefore not objective evidence.
There is no way to tell if that person experienced anything other than a transient emotional state.

It is not that any one's experience can be debunked, it is that it just isn't objective evidence of anything. All religious experiences are of no evidentiary value.
Word.

As for the video of the Baby, do you have a source on that? Based on all those years of biology, I think I can safely say that it's entirely impossible for a human whose brain has been deprived of oxygen for several hours to become active again as if nothing happened. The damage done after reviving someone after a couple of minutes can already be devastating.

I found the video.



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22-09-2012, 04:27 PM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2012 04:34 PM by Vosur.)
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
(22-09-2012 04:14 PM)tazmin98 Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 04:03 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Word.

As for the video of the Baby, do you have a source on that? Based on all those years of biology, I think I can safely say that it's entirely impossible for a human whose brain has been deprived of oxygen for several hours to become active again as if nothing happened. The damage done after reviving someone after a couple of minutes can already be devastating.

I found the video.


"I can't stand how doctor's always try to find a medical reason on how this occurred. Just let it be and give God the credit."
l00king4da1

"Shut the fuck up u fuckin athiest, just be happy that this was a mircale and that babay surivored"
Blackdynamite41

Hahahah! The comments on that video are hilariously ignorant and contain mostly religiously biased, uneducated blabbering. I know videos like that too well. It's just like that one news report that was about a boy claiming to have had a NDE, or another kid claiming to be the reincarnation of a WWII pilot and finally one about a man who claims to have met the ghost of the deceased husband of a friend of his. They're all rather similar to each other.

At 2:26, the reporter says that "[...] although Jamie had no visual signs of life, he was occasionally gasping for air [...]"

Evidently, the baby wasn't even dead to begin with. That's what the video shows as well. Incompetent doctors, that's all it is. Drinking Beverage

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22-09-2012, 05:43 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
'Explain how a religious experience may lead someone to a belief in God'

Is it just me or is there a key element missing to this question?

If someone didn't believe in god, and had an experience, wouldn't it be other people who believe in God who direct this person into thinking it's a religious experience?

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22-09-2012, 07:09 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
There are a lot of variables at play here, too many to count.

While I may be sounding like a religious person, I have to believe that ALL of the suppossed "miracles" have a naturalistic means of happening.

Take for instance this case. The news reports leave out some stuff. Like what exact procedures the doctors used, and in what order. We humans don't have the knowledge to fully know what in the world is possible, or even conceivable, through naturalistic means.

Hell, I would only say that claims of miracles should, and can only, be made legitimately when we know EVERYTHING about how this universe operates, so that we may know that this event breaks, or supercedes the laws of nature, or universe.I don't see that happening in a looooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg time.

I wouldn't jump on the miracle train yet.....

Btw, aren't claiming these events miracles an argument from ignorance? " I don't know how this happened.... Therefore Miracle!"

Same with everybody's PERSONAL religious expierence ( because that is all it is, personal, and not real evidence.) "I don't know how this could have happened, so therefore a miracle."

Or maybe an argument from incredulity too? "I can't imagine it happening without God's actions, so it's a miracle."


Either way, it's flawed, and should be discounted. Strange things happen all the time, but it is only strange when you think of them in the tiny perspective that we have.

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22-09-2012, 07:51 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
(22-09-2012 05:43 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  'Explain how a religious experience may lead someone to a belief in God'

Is it just me or is there a key element missing to this question?

If someone didn't believe in god, and had an experience, wouldn't it be other people who believe in God who direct this person into thinking it's a religious experience?

I don't know. Thats the type of question you will get on exams. I mean if it to be a 'religious' experience, the person needs to have some belief in god. Unless the events the person sees matches that religion doctrine. I will ask my teacher on that.

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22-09-2012, 07:58 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
(22-09-2012 04:27 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 04:14 PM)tazmin98 Wrote:  I found the video.


"I can't stand how doctor's always try to find a medical reason on how this occurred. Just let it be and give God the credit."
l00king4da1

"Shut the fuck up u fuckin athiest, just be happy that this was a mircale and that babay surivored"
Blackdynamite41

Hahahah! The comments on that video are hilariously ignorant and contain mostly religiously biased, uneducated blabbering. I know videos like that too well. It's just like that one news report that was about a boy claiming to have had a NDE, or another kid claiming to be the reincarnation of a WWII pilot and finally one about a man who claims to have met the ghost of the deceased husband of a friend of his. They're all rather similar to each other.

At 2:26, the reporter says that "[...] although Jamie had no visual signs of life, he was occasionally gasping for air [...]"

Evidently, the baby wasn't even dead to begin with. That's what the video shows as well. Incompetent doctors, that's all it is. Drinking Beverage

But didn't the doctor say it was a reflex.
I was thinking watching through video that doctor was obviously an idiot.

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22-09-2012, 08:03 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
You can disprove religious experience. Just depends on the experience.

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22-09-2012, 08:27 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
A scientist would say: " That's an interesting phenomena. Let's critically examine all the evidence we have, and figure out what exactly happened."

A religious person would say: "It's a miracle."

Will a religious experience lead to a belief in God? It depends on the past experiences of a person. Say you have a person who never knew or heard of the concept of a deity. One fine day, he sees a white lady on the surface of the water. He will naturally come up with a hypothesis of what he saw, based on his past experiences. He could dismiss the vision as a mirage, or assume the white lady to be a statue in the middle of the water.

Now, take a religious person, and give him/her the same scenario. There is a high chance the religious person will claim that the white lady is a saint or Mother Mary. Such a claim is based on past experiences as well, depicted in stories of Mary sightings near bodies of water. This vision most likely will reinforce the belief in a supernatural deity in a religious person.

Another scenario involves confirmation bias, a phenomena that usually leads to the illusion of a false pattern. Let's use the example of praying, a very good illustration of this phenomena. So one day little Billy prayed that his grandfather will visit him tomorrow. Sure enough, the phone rang, and who else but his grandfather to call up and announce his visit tomorrow. Seeing that his prayers are answered, he continues praying everyday for various things: toys, good grades, friends, happiness... Some of the prayers seems to be granted, while a large majority does not. However, if you ask little Billy whether prayer works, you will most likely get a yes. The innate nature of human beings to form patterns leads to confirmation bias, where Billy only remembers the few times prayer "works" for him, but disregards the countless other failed attempts.

The concept of "faith", or should I say wishful thinking, is usually the main factor that drives religious belief in a deity. Such wishful thinking manifests itself into various forms, in which I have highlighted two examples out of many.

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22-09-2012, 08:47 PM
RE: How could you debunk 'religious experiences'
(22-09-2012 07:51 PM)tazmin98 Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 05:43 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  'Explain how a religious experience may lead someone to a belief in God'

Is it just me or is there a key element missing to this question?

If someone didn't believe in god, and had an experience, wouldn't it be other people who believe in God who direct this person into thinking it's a religious experience?

I don't know. Thats the type of question you will get on exams. I mean if it to be a 'religious' experience, the person needs to have some belief in god. Unless the events the person sees matches that religion doctrine. I will ask my teacher on that.

That's where I find the question itself to be very confusing. It isn't worked on enough to explain whether the 'someone' previously had an inclination towards the existence of God or not, or that the belief in God was implanted. Considering the question pertains to Christianity, it's definitely not about coming up with the belief of a deity from scratch.

The word 'lead' points more towards previous indoctrination or an ongoing indoctrination on this 'someone'.

Best of luck in answering the question! (:

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