How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
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20-09-2012, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2012 04:39 PM by Janus.)
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(20-09-2012 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you can't. Embryology.

The development of the embryo is a process. There is no way to get the separate tissues other than creating the entire animal. That's the way DNA works.

Unless you're assuming we are starting from an entire corpse. Then we know what it looks like, but we are still only guessing at how it moved, what its behaviors were.

Yes, we are still guessing now. Like Einstein's predecessors were guessing about the nature and properties of energy and mass. That got solved – = understood – too.

The fact that we don't understand something now doesn't mean we never will. It only means 2 things: 1) that we don't understand it now, and 2) that we will find it out, eventually.

Have faith! In science and progress!
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20-09-2012, 04:38 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(20-09-2012 04:33 PM)Janus Wrote:  
(20-09-2012 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you can't. Embryology.

The development of the embryo is a process. There is no way to get the separate tissues other than creating the entire animal. That's the way DNA works.

Unless you're assuming we are starting from an entire corpse. Then we know what it looks like, but we are still only guessing at how it moved, what its behaviors were.

Yes, we are still guessing now. Like Einstein's predecessors were guessing about the nature and properties of energy and mass. That got solved – = understood – too.

The fact that we don't understand something now doesn't mean we never will. It only means that we don't understand it now. And it also means that we will find it out, eventually.

Have faith! In science and progress!

DNA is not a blueprint, it is a recipe; a recipe for a process. The process is embryology.

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20-09-2012, 04:40 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
We simulate processes all the time.
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20-09-2012, 04:43 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(20-09-2012 04:40 PM)Janus Wrote:  We simulate processes all the time.

And that, too, would be speculative, not actual. The simulation is only as good as the implementation of the model.

To know what the animal looked like and behaved, we will need the animal.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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20-09-2012, 04:50 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2012 04:57 PM by Janus.)
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(20-09-2012 04:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  To know what the animal looked like and behaved, we will need the animal.

No, to know what the animal looked like and behaved, we will need a couple of herds of them, in their own ecosystem (ice age flora and fauna), and a century or more to study that 'system'.
And we're gonna do that for all 5 subspecies? And for woolly rhinos? And for Aurochs? Etc. etc.? And for Neandertals and Denisovans, eventually?
Going about it this way will never be enough!

Doing it virtually, speeds it up a magnitude or 3, and is (will be) doable, whereas the cloning route never will be sufficient.
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22-09-2012, 08:28 AM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
ice age wasn't that long ago.. Not long enough for massive genetic changes. Only enough for species to go extinct. Most ice age fauna still exists today in some form.

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22-09-2012, 05:10 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(22-09-2012 08:28 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  ice age wasn't that long ago.. Not long enough for massive genetic changes. Only enough for species to go extinct. Most ice age fauna still exists today in some form.

They do? Most? Must have missed them then.
Please list, say, a dozen typical large ice age mammal species – from typical ice age ecosystems of course; not the tropics – that still exist today 'in some form' (if they are not in the 'original' form their genetic make-up has changed, obviously).
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22-09-2012, 07:27 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
I think cloning opens up some awesome possibilities. Just think of what can be observed not just through analyzing dna, but bringing a specimen to life and seeing how it behaves. Would be interesting to see how ti goes.
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22-09-2012, 08:03 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(22-09-2012 07:27 PM)Logisch Wrote:  I think cloning opens up some awesome possibilities. Just think of what can be observed not just through analyzing dna, but bringing a specimen to life and seeing how it behaves. Would be interesting to see how ti goes.

Absolutely! It would also be amoral to the point of immoral, in my opinion. And, in real life terms: virtualization/simulation is a million times faster and a million times cheaper... Big Grin
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22-09-2012, 09:37 PM
RE: How'd you like to see a living Mammoth?
(22-09-2012 08:03 PM)Janus Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 07:27 PM)Logisch Wrote:  I think cloning opens up some awesome possibilities. Just think of what can be observed not just through analyzing dna, but bringing a specimen to life and seeing how it behaves. Would be interesting to see how ti goes.

Absolutely! It would also be amoral to the point of immoral, in my opinion. And, in real life terms: virtualization/simulation is a million times faster and a million times cheaper... Big Grin

The possible resurrection of a species is enormously interesting, and worth the money if there is success.

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