How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
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18-11-2016, 09:09 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
Are you trying to makes atheists? 'Cause that's how you get atheists. Tongue

In my teens I was surrounded by a culture where the only question of god's existence was which denomination of Christianity one subscribed to. There was a general attitude of "we don't question it" and "we don't talk about it."

Which is how I ended up getting into drugs. Laugh out load

But I made a small circle of friends who'd go out back and smoke a joint and talk about these things, thus going from Evangelical Christian (which I never really accepted) to agnostic.

So to answer the OP's question, man, we don't talk about these things. Big Grin

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18-11-2016, 09:12 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 08:57 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:35 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  When I was little, it was how I was raised. Eventually I had some stuff happen, that I've detailed elsewhere before, that convinced me to be Saved. Then eventually I grew disenchanted with both a vicious worldly minister out for his own gain and being told to just shut up and believe, and started to look at other things. Neo Pagans kept me Christian while I searched; eventually found Catholicism most closely matched my interpretation of the Bible and had history, and welcomed questions (or at least each parish I've been to has). Or to quote Aliza, " It makes me feel happy and it makes sense to me."

See, I know folks who would claim you're under Satan's spell, not for the atheism, but for the yoga. Tongue Those would be Baptists and non-denoms, not Catholics though.



I was raised Irish Catholic. Lots of praying on rosaries and praying to dead saints. Wink I substituted my rosary for mala beads and the saints for a Ganesh statue. Obviously as an atheist, I don't pray on my mala or to Ganesh. I just use the mala for a mediation count to zen out. And Ganesh, I just think he's cute and I like the symbolism.





Ganesh is graceful!
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18-11-2016, 09:28 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
Never believed in a god.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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18-11-2016, 09:51 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 08:57 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:35 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  When I was little, it was how I was raised. Eventually I had some stuff happen, that I've detailed elsewhere before, that convinced me to be Saved. Then eventually I grew disenchanted with both a vicious worldly minister out for his own gain and being told to just shut up and believe, and started to look at other things. Neo Pagans kept me Christian while I searched; eventually found Catholicism most closely matched my interpretation of the Bible and had history, and welcomed questions (or at least each parish I've been to has). Or to quote Aliza, " It makes me feel happy and it makes sense to me."

See, I know folks who would claim you're under Satan's spell, not for the atheism, but for the yoga. Tongue Those would be Baptists and non-denoms, not Catholics though.

I was raised Irish Catholic. Lots of praying on rosaries and praying to dead saints. Wink I substituted my rosary for mala beads and the saints for a Ganesh statue. Obviously as an atheist, I don't pray on my mala or to Ganesh. I just use the mala for a mediation count to zen out. And Ganesh, I just think he's cute and I like the symbolism.

Made me laugh. I have a second cousin who the family thought converted to Catholicism, turned out it was just her mala beads too. Tongue And no yoga allowed in the Garden of Eden, only dinosaurs! Ken Ham has decreed it.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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18-11-2016, 10:19 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 08:24 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:22 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Theist here. It makes me feel happy and it makes sense to me.

Can you elaborate a little more on the sense part? Keep in mind I'm not asking you to prove your god, I just want to try and see things from your perspective.

Sure.

Jews do not interact with the bible or regard their G-d in the same way that Christians do. As a Jew, I have no problem being a religious person and also fully accepting scientific discovery. I have no religious hindrance keeping me from learning about the universe. I also don’t view my G-d as being some force working to constantly keep me in line under threat of eternal punishment. I view my G-d as being on my side and acting in my best interest and in the best interest of humanity.

I don’t believe out of fear, I believe because when I look at the world around me, it seems to be in concert with what I learn from the Torah. Being Jewish doesn't drag me down and hold me back. It enhances and improves my life by encouraging me to ask questions, to get out there and discover, and to live my life in a way that I think improves me as a person, and helps those around me.
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18-11-2016, 10:31 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 10:19 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 08:24 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Can you elaborate a little more on the sense part? Keep in mind I'm not asking you to prove your god, I just want to try and see things from your perspective.

Sure.

Jews do not interact with the bible or regard their G-d in the same way that Christians do. As a Jew, I have no problem being a religious person and also fully accepting scientific discovery. I have no religious hindrance keeping me from learning about the universe. I also don’t view my G-d as being some force working to constantly keep me in line under threat of eternal punishment. I view my G-d as being on my side and acting in my best interest and in the best interest of humanity.

I don’t believe out of fear, I believe because when I look at the world around me, it seems to be in concert with what I learn from the Torah. Being Jewish doesn't drag me down and hold me back. It enhances and improves my life by encouraging me to ask questions, to get out there and discover, and to live my life in a way that I think improves me as a person, and helps those around me.

I respect your desire to believe and I'm sure you have answered this a million times already on here Tongue -- but how do you "justify" some of the not so nice parts in the Torah?
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18-11-2016, 11:09 PM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 10:31 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 10:19 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Sure.

Jews do not interact with the bible or regard their G-d in the same way that Christians do. As a Jew, I have no problem being a religious person and also fully accepting scientific discovery. I have no religious hindrance keeping me from learning about the universe. I also don’t view my G-d as being some force working to constantly keep me in line under threat of eternal punishment. I view my G-d as being on my side and acting in my best interest and in the best interest of humanity.

I don’t believe out of fear, I believe because when I look at the world around me, it seems to be in concert with what I learn from the Torah. Being Jewish doesn't drag me down and hold me back. It enhances and improves my life by encouraging me to ask questions, to get out there and discover, and to live my life in a way that I think improves me as a person, and helps those around me.

I respect your desire to believe and I'm sure you have answered this a million times already on here Tongue -- but how do you "justify" some of the not so nice parts in the Torah?

This is really hard for me to explain because I find that the foundations in thinking are so different between Judaism and Christianity. You also didn’t give a specific example, so I’ll try to answer generally.

Here goes!

The universe is a series of causes and effects. The Jewish G-d also acts out of a series of causes and effects. My perception is that Christians expect that their G-d does things for them. They pray to Jesus, and then things are supposed to happen in their favor. The Jewish G-d writes a contract with the universe, and there will be a reaction for every action. Know the laws and avoid negative reactions.

Let's say for example that a Christian stands on the edge of a cliff and prays to Jesus that if he jumps off, he’ll be safe. When he falls to the bottom and breaks every bone in his body, Jesus is seen as having failed him or acted out of some malicious intent.

The atheist and the Jews don’t jump off the cliff because we both understand that gravity is a law, its effects are not going to be cancelled, and neither of us takes it personally. It’s just the way it is. Likewise, when “bad things” happen, we don’t place blame with G-d any more than we’d blame gravity for pulling us to the ground. Rather, we look at ourselves and try to understand how we screwed up and what we can do to improve in the future.
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19-11-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 07:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  For atheists this is only if you can recall, its been a decade for me and I can't even remember in the slightest how I managed to justify my belief.

For theists please don't feel shy about speaking up.

For someone with a -9 rating, this is a great question.

I grew up knowing about the ideas of god, the devil, heaven & hell and a couple stories in the bible, but they were all taught to me as stories, as fiction. No one presented it as anything other than that.

I had nothing to justify, because there was no belief.
I was lucky to have such good parents & grandparents.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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19-11-2016, 06:31 AM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(19-11-2016 06:08 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 07:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  For atheists this is only if you can recall, its been a decade for me and I can't even remember in the slightest how I managed to justify my belief.

For theists please don't feel shy about speaking up.

For someone with a -9 rating, this is a great question.

It was my own failures each negative reputation is justly deserved, for in each one they tell me that I need to improve how I reason with others. Metaphorically speaking at least. I like speaking metaphorically but a lot of people here seem to take things literally.

(19-11-2016 06:08 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 07:56 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  For atheists this is only if you can recall, its been a decade for me and I can't even remember in the slightest how I managed to justify my belief.

For theists please don't feel shy about speaking up.

For someone with a -9 rating, this is a great question.

I grew up knowing about the ideas of god, the devil, heaven & hell and a couple stories in the bible, but they were all taught to me as stories, as fiction. No one presented it as anything other than that.

I had nothing to justify, because there was no belief.
I was lucky to have such good parents & grandparents.

So you were always an atheist?
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19-11-2016, 08:18 AM
RE: How did/do you justify your belief in a god?
(18-11-2016 11:09 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(18-11-2016 10:31 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I respect your desire to believe and I'm sure you have answered this a million times already on here Tongue -- but how do you "justify" some of the not so nice parts in the Torah?

This is really hard for me to explain because I find that the foundations in thinking are so different between Judaism and Christianity. You also didn’t give a specific example, so I’ll try to answer generally.

Here goes!

The universe is a series of causes and effects. The Jewish G-d also acts out of a series of causes and effects. My perception is that Christians expect that their G-d does things for them. They pray to Jesus, and then things are supposed to happen in their favor. The Jewish G-d writes a contract with the universe, and there will be a reaction for every action. Know the laws and avoid negative reactions.

Let's say for example that a Christian stands on the edge of a cliff and prays to Jesus that if he jumps off, he’ll be safe. When he falls to the bottom and breaks every bone in his body, Jesus is seen as having failed him or acted out of some malicious intent.

The atheist and the Jews don’t jump off the cliff because we both understand that gravity is a law, its effects are not going to be cancelled, and neither of us takes it personally. It’s just the way it is. Likewise, when “bad things” happen, we don’t place blame with G-d any more than we’d blame gravity for pulling us to the ground. Rather, we look at ourselves and try to understand how we screwed up and what we can do to improve in the future.

One example would be Deuteronomy 28. To me, it's one of the worst descriptions of God, of who he is, of what he will do if you do not obey. That passage alone shows that he is someone to be feared. I was just wondering how you are able to view God as a friendly force after reading something like that?
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