Poll: How did life arise in the universe?
Via some natural process
Via the product of intellect
Life has always existed.
We don't know
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How did life arise in the universe?
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28-10-2014, 08:06 AM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(28-10-2014 04:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I was tempted to vote.

But can't / shan't... not without a definition of "life".

Gimme one, HJ.

Thanks.

Self replicating molecule prone to occasional mutation.
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28-10-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(27-10-2014 10:57 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  OMG, I never realized his/ her name before! That is hilarious!

Yeah, if there weren't rules for creating socks, I'd be tempted to only interact with him using handles like Ila Vanal, Hugh Jeffincock, Doug Upperbush, and Wilma Johnson-Fitner.
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29-10-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(28-10-2014 08:06 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Self replicating molecule prone to occasional mutation.

A definition designed to obscure the special pleading where you assume that simple self-replicating molecules must be intelligently designed while complex god-beasts are prone to spring into existence uncaused.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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29-10-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
I find that an un satisfying definition. It applies to crystals, minerals, all sorts of things that are inorganic.

Life requires: metabolism, self-replication (reproduction), and internal self-regulation. Life is a combination of phenomena. As such the emergence of life was a gradual process.
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29-10-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(29-10-2014 09:32 AM)natachan Wrote:  I find that an un satisfying definition. It applies to crystals, minerals, all sorts of things that are inorganic.

Life requires: metabolism, self-replication (reproduction), and internal self-regulation. Life is a combination of phenomena. As such the emergence of life was a gradual process.

Yep.
Something "arising" doesn't just go =Poof= ... to "arise" involves an emergent process.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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29-10-2014, 09:42 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2014 10:08 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(28-10-2014 08:06 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 04:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I was tempted to vote.

But can't / shan't... not without a definition of "life".

Gimme one, HJ.

Thanks.

Self replicating molecule prone to occasional mutation.

Fail. Try just a bit harder there big guy. "Molecules" are *alive* ? Really ? How about giving us an example of a "self-replicating molecule".

http://serc.carleton.edu/microbelife/yel...slive.html
http://www.virology.ws/are-viruses-alive/



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-10-2014, 12:00 PM (This post was last modified: 30-10-2014 07:56 AM by TreeSapNest.)
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
Hydrogen and gravity > stars > heavy atoms > chemistry > molecules > cells.
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29-10-2014, 05:50 PM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
Ok, I don't like to do this given the circumstances but let's be fair here:

Outside of the god exclusion "(A) Self replicating molecule prone to occasional mutation" is the minimum requirement for evolution so constitutes a good definition of life on earth for this discussion. It clearly separates the question of "is evolution true" from "what was the first thing to start evolving and how did it come to be?" and allows a focus on that second question. Sidestepping the question of "where did god come from" is a fatal flaw, but I think criticising that definition because it doesn't include other potential features of life is unfair and unreasonable in this context.

Under this definition of life a self-replicating DNA or RNA molecule would be counted as life, and yes of course it has to build a life-support system around itself to get by... and yes a modern organism has multiple DNA molecules... but for the sake of this argument separating the process of evolution from question of the first evolving entity is reasonable.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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29-10-2014, 06:08 PM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(29-10-2014 09:32 AM)natachan Wrote:  I find that an un satisfying definition. It applies to crystals, minerals, all sorts of things that are inorganic.

Life requires: metabolism, self-replication (reproduction), and internal self-regulation. Life is a combination of phenomena. As such the emergence of life was a gradual process.

crystals do not mutate.
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29-10-2014, 07:45 PM
RE: How did life arise in the universe?
(28-10-2014 08:06 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-10-2014 04:50 AM)DLJ Wrote:  I was tempted to vote.

But can't / shan't... not without a definition of "life".

Gimme one, HJ.

Thanks.

Self replicating molecule prone to occasional mutation.

Uuuuuuuuh....

.... under that definition, WE'RE not alive. DNA is not, strictly-speaking, self-replicating. It needs a host of support mechanisms within a cell (including separate RNA and a variety of resource-collection functions) in order to replicate. And nothing larger than DNA, ie a cell, would count as alive, because it wouldn't be a molecule.
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