How did the Quran avoid changes
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17-06-2012, 09:56 AM
It didn't ...
Your question contains the explicit assumption that the Quran is unchanged. You provide no evidence for that assertion.

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17-06-2012, 03:58 PM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
It is also supposed to be the final and unalterable word of god so that would preclude the ability to change it. I have never looked into how it was put together and if there were alterations over the years.

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17-06-2012, 04:23 PM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
(17-06-2012 09:52 AM)Sirchrisnificent Wrote:  Im sorry,i know it wasnt originally written in Latin but around the 3rd century when Latin was made official,all books were translated to Latin(the vulgate i think it was called) and after its death,centuries later,most of the messages were lost in translation of the old Latin text,beides most of the original hebrew and greek scripts of the septuagint books,Mark,John,Luke,Mathew and psalms were lost.
Sorry for the confusion

@Hafnof,i beg to differ the first texts written in hebrew of most books especially in the old testament like the book of Esther,Ecclestiastes,Jeremiah and Maccabees took years to translate and the translation is still not accurate as noted in the king James' versions.Psalms is to this day not complete in translation
Here's the problem... You are using the King James version. There are other bibles that translate directly from the old Greek and Hebrew copies of the copies of the copies of the manuscript. Lol

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17-06-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
(17-06-2012 09:52 AM)Sirchrisnificent Wrote:  Im sorry,i know it wasnt originally written in Latin but around the 3rd century when Latin was made official,all books were translated to Latin(the vulgate i think it was called) and after its death,centuries later,most of the messages were lost in translation of the old Latin text,beides most of the original hebrew and greek scripts of the septuagint books,Mark,John,Luke,Mathew and psalms were lost.
Sorry for the confusion

@Hafnof,i beg to differ the first texts written in hebrew of most books especially in the old testament like the book of Esther,Ecclestiastes,Jeremiah and Maccabees took years to translate and the translation is still not accurate as noted in the king James' versions.Psalms is to this day not complete in translation

I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's not accurate.

To set the record straight on the original languages of the Bible:

The original OT is about 98.6% Hebrew, 1.4% Aramaic. The Aramaic sections are: about half of Daniel (2:4b - 7:28), more than a quarter of Ezra (4:8 - 6:18, 7:12-26), one verse in Jeremiah (10:11), and two words in Genesis (31:47).

The original NT is Koine Greek, along with a few Aramaic words spoken by Jesus.

As has been noted earlier in the thread, Latin is not an original language of any of the Bible. Attempts to translate the Bible into English from the Vulgate make as much sense as translating Shakespeare into Japanese using the Turkish translation as the source.

The Biblical versions of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek are very well-known and well-studied languages. This is not to say there aren't some textual variants or disputes among scholars about what particular words and passages mean. The Jewish Publication Society edition of the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible, generally equivalent to the OT except in the order of the books) has quite a few footnotes saying "Meaning of Heb. uncertain" (most notably in Job, whose Hebrew is very difficult). But when you're dealing with ancient languages, that's to be expected. In general, however, the original languages are well understood.

You mentioned Esther as being particularly difficult to translate. As a matter of fact, the Hebrew of Esther is easier than most, so much so that the book has been used as the primary text for analysis in at least one published Introduction to Biblical Hebrew. Also, although there are a few mysteries in Psalms, it's generally no more difficult to translate than most other books of the OT. As for the various books called Maccabees (not part of the standard Protestant Bible or the Tanakh), the original Hebrew versions have been lost; all we have are Greek translations.

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18-06-2012, 06:58 AM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
I have an original Penguin Classics Koran. It's the same as it ever was. Tongue

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18-06-2012, 10:38 AM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
@Cufflink,thanks i did have some of that info wrong,guess thats why i dropped out of religious education.I do however have a question,dunno if you can answer,Who decided the various books that ere supposed to be part of the bible?I have read maccabees and it seems a good read better than Micah,Obadiah and Esther which(Esther) actually doesnt mention God once.I just dont understand who had that power to decide a so-called sacred book,coz i've been told that far too many books were proposed only to be rejected
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18-06-2012, 11:15 AM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2012 11:26 AM by Atothetheist.)
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
(18-06-2012 10:38 AM)Sirchrisnificent Wrote:  @Cufflink,thanks i did have some of that info wrong,guess thats why i dropped out of religious education.I do however have a question,dunno if you can answer,Who decided the various books that ere supposed to be part of the bible?I have read maccabees and it seems a good read better than Micah,Obadiah and Esther which(Esther) actually doesnt mention God once.I just dont understand who had that power to decide a so-called sacred book,coz i've been told that far too many books were proposed only to be rejected
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The Bible, as we now know it, was assorted by basically a vote. Back in the old days, the Christians had many documents that talked about Jesus, Adam and Eve, and other important, or not important ( The Gospel Of Enoch, Mary Magdalene,etc.) religious figures. There is a Documentary on some of the books you may not know about called Banned From the Bible. It talks about the different books that there could have been.

Anyways, So the earlier Christians had lots of these stories, and needed a way to make some of the documents official, while rejecting others.This was a good way to push their aganda forward, and become a more official religion. I am not very informative on this type of Subject, but for a read check this out.

Biblical Canon

I hope I Could at least provide you with some interesting referrances.... Undecided

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18-06-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
(18-06-2012 11:15 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  [Image: I-got-this.jpg]
Note how the boy has peed his pants. Big Grin

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18-06-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
(18-06-2012 11:20 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(18-06-2012 11:15 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  [Image: I-got-this.jpg]
Note how the boy has peed his pants. Big Grin
You bastard!

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18-06-2012, 12:29 PM
RE: How did the Quran avoid changes
I'm with Hafnof, who is to say what Mohammed said in the 620's and what was written down way later.

I once raed the story about the while 72 virgins thing. Apparently the entire Koran was translated from old arabic, except the word used for virgins, which in arabic meant 'white raisins of crystal clarity' but the same word in aramaic meant 'virgins' so simeone thout that might be a better idea.
It took 1400 years for someone to catch on though... (2 quick pages)

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