How do Aethist think about veganism?
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28-04-2014, 03:36 PM
How do Aethist think about veganism?
I am a new member to the thinking atheist web forum, and a pretty new member to the podcast and channel in general. I really enjoy watching and participating in secular and free thinking discussion because I find that the community is much more receptive to reason and logic and in general more enlightened and open minded. I have been an atheist pretty much my whole life. I flirted with theism for a long time, primarily out of fear and uncertainty, but I started doubting at a very early age. I have noticed in the secular community that many people are a lot like me, we just don't fit in theistic communities. We tend to be incessant question'ers and challengers of ideas and authorities. While many believers seem to be very comfortable and rather uncritical of their faith, as atheist we just can't help but challenge it even if it hurts, and for a time anyway, makes us very unhappy. We just can't believe in something that doesn't make sense.

When I became a vegan more than a year ago, I found my "conversation" to vegansim to be remarkably similar to my "conversion" to atheism. At first I was a bit of a quite and abashed vagan, saying things like "its good for my health" and "the way the world is going there might be a day when the choice is made for me not to eat meat" and things like that, somewhat similar to the way people become "spiritual but not religious" and "agnostic but not athiest" as they settle into their new non-theist identity. I started to become much more aware of my culture, my society, the hypocrisies in the way we treat animals and evaluate life, and the non arguments people use to justify this position. Some 55-85% of people are theist in the US and abroad depending on where you go, but something like 68% of people are omnivores and about 30% of people are "vegetarians", meaning eat at least some animal products, and only 2% of us are vegan. Its an immense culture shock, and it become incredibly isolating when you find your self being the only person eating what you eat and the dinner table, or more often, not eating what everybody else is eating. As fundamental as religion is to most people, I truly believe food is even more so, and the way people talk about food is often nearly identical in structure and form to the way people talk about prayer, ritual, and god.

I don't particularly want to get into the specifics of the vegan argument, more so I want to draw a parallel between veganism and atheism in a few ways. Both vegans and atheist are often marginalized, ridiculed, and grossly misrepresented in general. (In my opinion) both atheism and veganism are more rationally poor and humanitarian belief systems than pretty much all other alternatives. Both veganism and atheism seem to be the natural evolution of rational thought and a logical, evidence based approach to either food or faith.

Despite that though, I think its a fair assumption that most atheist are not vegans. It seems to strange to me that these intelligent and compassionate people I so readily identify with and respect have not made the compassionate and rational leap to the vegan diet. For those who are not familiar and find this post very strange, I strongly recommend you look into the vegan argument. The social, political, environmental, economic, and humanitarian benefits to vegansim (both for animals and people) are extremely difficult to dispute. If you are a vegan atheist I would love to hear from you. If you are a non vegan atheist I am curious, have you done any research into veganism, and why have you ultimately decided to keep eating animals and using animals derived products?
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28-04-2014, 03:57 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
This may seem like an odd question but can you call yourself a vegan and still eat woodpecker?

Dodgy

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28-04-2014, 04:29 PM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 04:54 PM by Chas.)
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(28-04-2014 03:36 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I am a new member to the thinking atheist web forum, and a pretty new member to the podcast and channel in general. I really enjoy watching and participating in secular and free thinking discussion because I find that the community is much more receptive to reason and logic and in general more enlightened and open minded. I have been an atheist pretty much my whole life. I flirted with theism for a long time, primarily out of fear and uncertainty, but I started doubting at a very early age. I have noticed in the secular community that many people are a lot like me, we just don't fit in theistic communities. We tend to be incessant question'ers and challengers of ideas and authorities. While many believers seem to be very comfortable and rather uncritical of their faith, as atheist we just can't help but challenge it even if it hurts, and for a time anyway, makes us very unhappy. We just can't believe in something that doesn't make sense.

When I became a vegan more than a year ago, I found my "conversation" to vegansim to be remarkably similar to my "conversion" to atheism. At first I was a bit of a quite and abashed vagan, saying things like "its good for my health" and "the way the world is going there might be a day when the choice is made for me not to eat meat" and things like that, somewhat similar to the way people become "spiritual but not religious" and "agnostic but not athiest" as they settle into their new non-theist identity. I started to become much more aware of my culture, my society, the hypocrisies in the way we treat animals and evaluate life, and the non arguments people use to justify this position. Some 55-85% of people are theist in the US and abroad depending on where you go, but something like 68% of people are omnivores and about 30% of people are "vegetarians", meaning eat at least some animal products, and only 2% of us are vegan. Its an immense culture shock, and it become incredibly isolating when you find your self being the only person eating what you eat and the dinner table, or more often, not eating what everybody else is eating. As fundamental as religion is to most people, I truly believe food is even more so, and the way people talk about food is often nearly identical in structure and form to the way people talk about prayer, ritual, and god.

I don't particularly want to get into the specifics of the vegan argument, more so I want to draw a parallel between veganism and atheism in a few ways. Both vegans and atheist are often marginalized, ridiculed, and grossly misrepresented in general. (In my opinion) both atheism and veganism are more rationally poor and humanitarian belief systems than pretty much all other alternatives. Both veganism and atheism seem to be the natural evolution of rational thought and a logical, evidence based approach to either food or faith.

Despite that though, I think its a fair assumption that most atheist are not vegans. It seems to strange to me that these intelligent and compassionate people I so readily identify with and respect have not made the compassionate and rational leap to the vegan diet. For those who are not familiar and find this post very strange, I strongly recommend you look into the vegan argument. The social, political, environmental, economic, and humanitarian benefits to vegansim (both for animals and people) are extremely difficult to dispute. If you are a vegan atheist I would love to hear from you. If you are a non vegan atheist I am curious, have you done any research into veganism, and why have you ultimately decided to keep eating animals and using animals derived products?

We are omnivores, therefore veganism is not the most rational choice. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-04-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
My wife is both. I'm only halfway there.

Throughout history conversions happen at the point of a sword, deconversions at the point of a pen - FC

I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain in Eruption
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28-04-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
veganism= eating vegetables.....right there....that's my problem with it.


some problems aren't all that complicated.





now...the bread and water diet.....I could live happily ever after on that one, but it doesn't provide much in the way of nutrients. I struggle daily. Still waiting for full nutrition to come in tablet form, so all my eating is strictly for pleasure and not to keep me alive.


"It's all bullshit, we know it, and you know it, you're either to fucking stupid to realize it, or too chickenshit to admit it." -pablo. Bowing
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28-04-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
Welcome aboard! I like animals and I also like bacon and eggs. I've known a few vegans who were nice people, but the odd one was the annoying preaching type with the " Meat is murder" t-shirts. For me it's not murder, it's tasty.

“The first duty of a man is to think for himself” ― José Martí
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28-04-2014, 06:00 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
If you're a vegan: Right on, more power to ya'

If you're a vegan and talk about it all the time: Yeah yeah, great, please shut up

If you're a vegan and act condescendingly toward people who eat meat, or try to convert people to your side of the subject: Fuck off before I shove a whole raster of bacon up your ass and smoke it.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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28-04-2014, 06:30 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
I don't see it as a big deal. I don't see food as a big deal in terms of reason and ethics.
The only problem I see with food is its distribution, localized hunger and obesity is a far greater issue than eating meat or lettuce.

I don't tolerate people marginalizing vegans or vegetarians in my vicinity though, the same way I can't stand vegans judging carnivores.

As far as I'm concerned you can put whatever you want in whatever hole you have.


As far as veganism being equivalent to atheism, is like saying that communism is equivalent to homosexuality. You'll find things apparently in common, but you'll be comparing apples and oranges

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28-04-2014, 07:12 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
I can't comprehend the choice, it seem at odds with my interpretation of reality.
The evolutionary intelligence arms race that required hunting as a catalyst no longer applies, but I still feel bound to primal desires of biting into flesh.
A picture of a roast or whole pig on a spit excites me, seeing and smelling one in the flesh triggers a euphoria in me superior to any drug ive tried (for research purposes).

I've found Theists an Atheists are equally confused about Vegans

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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28-04-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
If you are paleo it is a death sentence

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