How do Aethist think about veganism?
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30-04-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:17 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 10:08 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Here in 'Murica, it's potatoe

Australians call them "ground apples"

And I South Africa they are literally called earth apples.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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30-04-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:17 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 10:08 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  Here in 'Murica, it's potatoe

Australians call them "ground apples"

because they're retarded.
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30-04-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 10:17 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Australians call them "ground apples"

because they're retarded.

I have been trying to figure this out... WTF to potatoes have to do with apples?

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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30-04-2014, 10:31 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:31 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 10:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  because they're retarded.

I have been trying to figure this out... WTF to potatoes have to do with apples?

EXACTLY!
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30-04-2014, 10:35 AM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2014 10:51 AM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 02:44 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 02:38 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Already fixed some of those before you posted. Tongue
Oh yeah? Hurry up and fix the rest, then. Angry

I'll take my time. Cool

Also, I would like to post an addendum.

So, to recap, my previous essay length contribution to this thread dealt with 4 issues:

1. That the cost-benefit analysis and central axiom of kill--->eat did not actually cover every optional scenario for eating meat and that there would still be situations where it was perfectly moral to do so, mainly when the human did not kill the animal or the animal was killed for more beneficiary purposes and then consumed as a secondary action (it was agreed upon earlier, if not in the original post, that it's perfectly moral to kill animals for meat so long as it is a necessity).

2. Quite simply, why was it immoral to kill animals and only animals? Furthermore, is it immoral to kill all animals?

3. What types of new environmental and economics strains would be placed on a society to an all vegan diet?

4. The very real possibility that switching out meat for substitutes might lead to widespread deficiencies over time that would not be predicted from our current knowledge of meat.

I realize now that very little of this article of mine actually got to the meat (heh) of the practical matter. Issue 1 dealt solely with the moral nature of Tadlock's vegan axioms and their weaknesses as moral absolutes (absolutes as in universally applicable if one accepted the axioms, not as in objective by nature). Issue 2 is an important clarification question that Tadlock should probably ponder upon since it's central to his decision on being a vegan. Issues 3 and 4 were considerations of hypothetical consequences of a society as a whole switching to a vegan diet.

Now, while these are important points on their own merits, what my post didn't cover much of at all was probably the main debate point in this thread, which is whether or not it's moral to eat meat that is optionally consumed and IS killed by human hands, whether it be the through the slaughterhouses or free roaming ranches. Issue 1 has no relevance on this point since it was specifically addressing situations that fell outside this parameter, and while issue 3 has some relevance, it's not really worth dwelling on in comparison to issues 2 and 4. The first point of issue 2 is still relevant, in fact it's still central to the debate, and I'll let others continue to discuss that particular facet.

I realize now that additional commentary is needed on issue 4. So let's say that we do need meat because we can't replicate all its vital nutrients. While it may very well be true that meat does indeed possess required nutrients, I concede that this is not in fact the current drive behind its massive rates of consumption since the various populations of the Western World (some consuming more than others) eat WAY more meat than is dietarily or nutritionally required. So, regardless of whether one chooses to be a vegan or continued omnivore, I think it could be argued that, since we eat MORE meat than we need to, and since this high demand is driving the cruel and inhumane animal slaughter industry, we should reduce the size and scope of animal slaughtering until we have enough left to only cover our populations' dietary needs. Even if one was perfectly fine with having the animals killed for our optional consumption, I think one agree that it would be preferable if they didn't have to suffer so greatly in so many of our massive CAFO centers.

Of course, I see that being about as likely as pigs flying since the guiding market principles could give two shits about morality. Also, I love bacon too much to voluntarily decrease my consumption of it, so I do admit in this instance that my love of bacon makes me a terrible person (I'm okay with that though, because bacon understands me).

Edit: Looks like you responded in the time I was writing this, Tadlock. I unfortunately have to get back to work now, but I'll get to answering the post eventually.

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30-04-2014, 10:37 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:31 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 10:24 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  because they're retarded.

I have been trying to figure this out... WTF to potatoes have to do with apples?

Der, its because they are rounder then bananas.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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30-04-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:37 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(30-04-2014 10:31 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  I have been trying to figure this out... WTF to potatoes have to do with apples?

Der, its because they are rounder then bananas.

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Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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30-04-2014, 10:54 AM (This post was last modified: 30-04-2014 07:45 PM by Colourcraze.)
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
Slightly related, you should take a look at this anime called Silver Spoon. It's about this kid who goes to an agricultural high school and learns about where our food comes from and the care of the animals etc. there's always some lesson to be learned at the end of each episode. I find it pretty educational and entertaining Big Grin

Also, what's a vegan do when traveling to foreign countries? Here in China, even being a vegetarian is practically unheard of. You order a veggie dish and it's gonna have little bits of meat in it or have been cooked in lard or something. Veganism is only something upper class people in first world countries can get away with (covering my bases, I'm sure there's somebody out there in India or something who's a vegan) but it's really a privileged class who can afford to be vegan. Like somebody said earlier, there's family and other parts of our lives to concern ourselves with before thinking about how that chicken felt before ended up in my belly.


Ps, given the opportunity (and legality/consent of the person/all the right circumstances) ...... I'd eat some people meat. I bet we're tasty.

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30-04-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 10:54 AM)Colourcraze Wrote:  Slightly related, you should take a look at this anime called Solver Spoon. It's about this kid who goes to an agricultural high school and learns about where our food comes from and the care of the animals etc. there's always some lesson to be learned at the end of each episode. I find it pretty educational and entertaining Big Grin

Also, what's a vegan do when traveling to foreign countries? Here in China, even being a vegetarian is practically unheard of. You order a veggie dish and it's gonna have little bits of meat in it or have been cooked in lard or something. Veganism is only something upper class people in first world countries can get away with (covering my bases, I'm sure there's somebody out there in India or something who's a vegan) but it's really a privileged class who can afford to be vegan. Like somebody said earlier, there's family and other parts of our lives to concern ourselves with before thinking about how that chicken felt before ended up in my belly.


Ps, given the opportunity (and legality/consent of the person/all the right circumstances) ...... I'd eat some people meat. I bet we're tasty.

We're referred to as "long pork" for a reason. I wonder which part of us tastes like bacon. Consider

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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30-04-2014, 01:39 PM
RE: How do Aethist think about veganism?
(30-04-2014 03:48 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I feel like I keep interrupting the flow of the thread, sorry Tongue

(29-04-2014 03:31 PM)cjlr Wrote:  But that's entirely a matter of self-interest over group interest...
(here, theoretically, with sub-optimal ecological practices for the purpose of short-term gratification)

I mean, we all do that all the time, but awareness is half the battle.

It would be a matter of self-interest over group interest if I acted in away that promotes only my self-interests while ignoring group interests, which is not what is happening.

All I'm saying is, I am aware that I am responsible and I do my best to be responsible, but I am simply human and I can't force myself to have a miserable life just for the sake of others. I just posted an over-simplified version of this thought.

I don't think it's that bad.

The over-simplified version was.
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