How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
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16-03-2015, 12:17 AM
How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
I've thought about DLJ's question for a few days, now. I figured that the best way to answer his question--especially since it was off topic--was to just devote a new thread to it.

I can't promise I will be able to devote too much attention to this thread right now (I'll do what I can), since I'm already backlogged in another thread. But the internet's a wonderful place, in that you can just pick up where you left off quite a bit later from when you started it.

Here's how the exchange and question went:

(13-03-2015 07:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(13-03-2015 05:49 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ...
Yes. My view is very narrow. This makes sense because I follow a path of "narrow is the path of righteousness, and broad is the path to destruction." You're talking to someone (me) who believes that the majority of people on this planet from the beginning of time until now have gone to Hell.
...

Since we have you here and you're here to probe, I hope you don't mind a little return-probing.

I know many people (colleagues) with this mindset. I'm sure you can guess my opinion of this narrow-mindedness but if you want to probe / confirm your guesses, feel free to ask... there are no 'atheist-only' sections on TTA, btw.

None of these people are catholics.

Incidentally, I know many people who use the 'label' of 'catholic' but without exception this is simply a recognition of the tradition within which they have been raised. Not a single one has read the bible and a subset (the majority) are confused when I describe them as christian... somewhere along the road, here, 'christian' has started to mean protestant. These are largely 'present-hedonists' because we're so close to the equator... see the first few minutes of the video below for a brief explanation of that.

No, the people to whom I refer who have the same mindset as you describe above are either non-catholic christians or muslims.

They seems to live in the past (e.g. bring back the Caliphate! or like that other SD-guy on the 'used-to-be-Respectul-to-Catholics thread' who pines for Vatican I) or the future (after-life, hell, etc.) after death is all that matters ... again, see video, below.

So my question is...

How would you go about explaining to them the error of their ways?

What techniques have you used and which have been successful?

Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3oIiH7BLmg

I've watched the video you recommended. I would agree that it seems as though many non-Catholic Christians--which I just simply call Protestant--live in the past. I would say that also, perhaps yes, even the ultra-Traditionalist Catholics such as sedevacantists seem to live in the past.

But in terms of religion, you cannot simply blanket-label these denominations like that.

Let's take Muslims. Yes, it appears as though they live in the past for the past caliphates. But, if you pay attention to your daily news, you will read about how there are countless men from wealthy backgrounds in Western countries who are pouring into Iraq and Syria to bring about a new caliphate. They want a worldwide Islamic State, and they are diligently working to bring that reality to us all.

I will not be surprised if I start to see the destruction of many historical Catholic landmarks--including the Vatican--in my lifetime. The will of the West to oppose them is weak and pretty much non-existent.

I would say that the Muslims of today are diligently living in the future and working to achieve a planned goal.

What about Protestants? Again, some seem to live in the past. Take, for example, my old Baptist church. (I used to be Baptist.) The building is huge, and it costs a fortune to power it and keep it air-conditioned. Who pays for those bills? A small handful of old people who will not be with us much longer. They do not know how to get a youth program going, and last I left them, they did not know how to evangelize, let alone market themselves in the manner of a megachurch. The church's fate is sealed, and I don't know if it will last the decade. The people there live in the past.

Some protestant mega churches work and work their butts off to bring about material prosperity. We have all seen these. Joel Olsteen, anyone? Clearly, these organizations are future-oriented. They hire marketing strategists to rope in more people to attend their stadiums, and thus they increase their income inflow.

Sedevacantists? A lot of them appear to be living in the past, as you said. But the key word is "appear." It seems that many of them are working in different ways to enlarge their numbers. It is true that the sedes do not appear to be future-oriented--but that may be because they believe it is now up to God, at this point, to set the world right. Myself, I see no harm in trying to improve the world or the Church, but a lot of them are sitting on their hands.

I'd say that for practicing and faithful Catholics--and probably a few non-Catholics out there who I have not seen--these people also live for the future. But their work and toil involves prayer, and their currency is spiritual grace. Such people are working to invest in Heaven. In my personal life, I don't know too many people who are like this. I try to be this way, but I know I fail the standards I set for myself quite often. Still, I try.

Now, you asked me what strategies I use to reach out to these people?

My answer? I have no idea. I haven't figured out a single strategy yet.

When it comes to religion, I do not really think I have convinced too many people at all. Lord knows, I've tried. But the world is not filled with ignorant people. Most people have made up their minds about these matters, and it is up to individuals to decide to listen to others. I have never been able to convince either a friend, co-worker, or colleague on the internet to change.

Different people have different priorities, and they get irritated if you try to tell them what their priorities should be. Most people live in the present and just don't give a care. So, what can ya do? Such is life.

Maybe apologetics is not what God meant for me, and it's beyond my station in life. I don't know.

I will "witness" whenever I see it is called for. But no one calls for it. In fact, after my conversion, most of my friends have been careful ever since to not bring up religion or ask me why I believe what I believe (it's been 14 years, now). Converting to the Church has ostracized me from most of my friends and family. Is there any "reaching out" to that? Nah. I tried a time or two, but I just got dismissal in return.


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16-03-2015, 12:52 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Maybe you jokers need to take a step back and let the Old Man who lives in the Sky do his thing. I mean, all this guff about sacking the Vatican and other people being better at marketing than you - that's in his infallible plan right? Including every single word that gets typed at TTA forums. God is speaking through me right now, to you, telling you to take up dangerous hobbies Wink

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-03-2015, 01:00 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Thanks for that. I'm at work at the moment (teaching non-catholic governance) but I will read it in a few hours.

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16-03-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 12:17 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Let's take Muslims. Yes, it appears as though they live in the past for the past caliphates. But, if you pay attention to your daily news, you will read about how there are countless men from wealthy backgrounds in Western countries who are pouring into Iraq and Syria to bring about a new caliphate. They want a worldwide Islamic State, and they are diligently working to bring that reality to us all.

I will not be surprised if I start to see the destruction of many historical Catholic landmarks--including the Vatican--in my lifetime. The will of the West to oppose them is weak and pretty much non-existent.

I would say that the Muslims of today are diligently living in the future and working to achieve a planned goal.

The fact that they are actively working towards bringing something about in the future doesn't negate the idea that they are living in, or at least longing for, the past. The system that they are working to set up is based on an understanding of how the universe works and how societies should operate that was prominent over a thousand years ago. That, for me anyway, counts as living in the past.

The same is true for Christians who are basing their goals and actions on similarly outdated beliefs. Even groups that are actively reaching out to young people are doing so not to move into the future but to drag those young people into the centuries-old worldview and, ultimately, to prevent meaningful change and progress.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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16-03-2015, 06:01 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
I think the best way to reach out to anyone is to live what you believe and not preach what you believe. I have so much respect for my friend Kimberly whose faith is just such a part of her. She feels no need to preach or push. She lives her faith but understands and accepts that not everyone follows the same beliefs. She doesn't hold herself above anyone and it's obvious that her faith is honest and not just for show.

She and I have had long discussions about our opposite worldviews. In the end, we just like each other as people. Who believes or doesn't simply does not matter.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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16-03-2015, 06:50 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
"Taqiyya Mockingbird, Hafnof, Bucky Ball, Minimalist, DemonicLemon, and GirlyMan".
His list. It's a gettin' longer. Another badge I'm PROUD to wear.
And here we have a Catholic preaching about "living in the past". Laughat
LMFAO.

His ALL MALE "princes" strut about in early Medieval Italian Civil officials' garb, and fish helmets from the fish god Dagon from Babylonia, and HE'S talking about living in the past. Facepalm

Whenever a Catholic says he wants to "reach out" to someone, be sure your little boys are well looked after, and warned about "stranger danger".

Just go away, Laramie. TTA was not set up as a place for Catholics to feel better about their Medieval organization. It has nothing to offer the 21st Century.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-03-2015, 06:54 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 12:17 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Now, you asked me what strategies I use to reach out to these people?

My answer? I have no idea. I haven't figured out a single strategy yet.

When it comes to religion, I do not really think I have convinced too many people at all. Lord knows, I've tried. But the world is not filled with ignorant people. Most people have made up their minds about these matters, and it is up to individuals to decide to listen to others. I have never been able to convince either a friend, co-worker, or colleague on the internet to change.

That should tell you that maybe you shouldn't bother.

And a Roman Catholic accusing anyone of living in the past is obvious irony.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-03-2015, 07:26 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 12:17 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  When it comes to religion, I do not really think I have convinced too many people at all. Lord knows, I've tried. But the world is not filled with ignorant people.
There you go. Since you can see that the rest of us are not in fact the misguided children the Church insists that we are... that's about it. We don't *need* to be told stuff... But ja, that's a primary meme that the church sells to its members, the idea that the unsaved just need a good strong talking to and they'll see things your way.

Quote:Different people have different priorities, and they get irritated if you try to tell them what their priorities should be.
Indeed...

Quote:I will "witness" whenever I see it is called for. But no one calls for it. In fact, after my conversion, most of my friends have been careful ever since to not bring up religion or ask me why I believe what I believe (it's been 14 years, now). Converting to the Church has ostracized me from most of my friends and family. Is there any "reaching out" to that? Nah. I tried a time or two, but I just got dismissal in return.
What did you convert *from*? Oh wait you already said you used to be a Baptist... At least it seems you've retained some friends. Bit rough that the rest of them seem to have kept you at arms' length Undecided Why'd ya feel the need to be Catholic, if you don't mind my asking? I mean... what's so wrong with any other flavour of Christianity?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-03-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
help me, I've been brainwashed, everytime I hear the word Catholic, Tim Minchin springs to mind.





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16-03-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 07:45 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  help me, I've been brainwashed, everytime I hear the word Catholic, Tim Minchin springs to mind.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

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