How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
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20-03-2015, 09:46 AM (This post was last modified: 20-03-2015 09:55 AM by WhiskeyDebates.)
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 02:03 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ....it's just the same lingering problem in the background between atheists like you and creationists like me.

Wait you are a creationist? As in you don't believe in evolution, that kinda creationist?

(20-03-2015 02:03 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  As far as wild statements are concerned, I hear them all the time from you folks.
Quote 1.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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20-03-2015, 09:54 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 03:00 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I don't know. I've never explored a debate or prolonged argument that went down this path. I've never tried to provide "evidence" that God exists.
Have you never tried to provide evidence for what you believe...to yourself? Like real evidence not any of this "oh I feel the Holy spirit" nonsense but real testable evidence. How you even studied the origins of Judaism and the religions in that area that came before it?

(20-03-2015 03:00 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  It seems as though atheists have already made up their mind, in any event.

Actually most Atheists would tell you that definitive, demonstrable, falsifiable evidence would absolutely change their mind. Many of us became Atheists because we tried to find this exact stuff while Christian and were forced to conclude it did not exist. I know many people that still struggle with their Atheism and would be ecstatic to be able to believe in god and go back to their families that have disowned and reviled them.

I'm starting to suspect you don't know the first thing about what you are talking about at any given time.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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20-03-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 05:04 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  It is not for me to worry about those who have never heard of Jesus Christ. God may have a plan or a saving grace for such people.

However, I personally have heard of Jesus Christ, and so I am obligated to either choose or not choose him, and I'm charged with sharing that knowledge with other people. All Christians are charged with that task so that there will be no one on Earth who cannot make that choice.
Think of it this way. If people haven't heard of JC then they get to go to heaven for eternity. (They get a free pass)
If people are approached by Christians telling them about a magical Jesus who walks on water and comes back from the dead, if they find your story inconsistent with reality and hence choose not to believe you then they go to hell for an eternity of torture.

This seems to put a lot of pressure on you as a Christian to get your story telling to a high level of believability. If you are not very good at it and a high percentage of people walk away from your little chat not believing in Jesus (and probably in the process thinking you are a looney) then you have just condemned these people to an eternity of torture. It seems to me, unless you are 100% sure that you can convince people then you shouldn't try. I would think the weight of guilt on your shoulders from telling a hardly believable story and hence condemning your audience to eternal torture, this weight could make you feel ultimately miserable about what you have done.
I understand that you may have been taught that it is their fault for choosing not to believe. But I'm sure you understand that some people are better at convincing people than other people are. So unless you think you are exceptionally good at it, why would you tell a bad story (unbelievable story) and condemn people to hell?


Wouldn't it be best to keep the JC story a secret? Tell no one. Let the story be lost in time. Then everyone gets to go to heaven.
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20-03-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 02:11 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Wouldn't it be best to keep the JC story a secret? Tell no one. Let the story be lost in time. Then everyone gets to go to heaven.

Not quite. You can thank Ezekiel for the fist in the velvet glove. Sure, you can *choose* not to tell a wicked man the error of his ways. But if you do so *his blood will be on your hands*. The business of evangelism is carried out on the back of the threat that if you *don't* tell the wicked man, *you too* shalt be fucked and go to hell. Meantime blissfully ignorant wicked man goes to heaven. Fuck that shit. I'mma evangelise the shit out of that man. Tongue

I actually don't know if that's the Catholic view. I've heard a sermon preached on that by a non-Catholic though Angel

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-03-2015, 03:23 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Going back to the title of this thread and the question it asks...

How about as a human being? Why does it have to be about Catholic or non? There are other things to talk about. There are varied interests, personal concerns, news topics, etc. How about just being a person? Period, end of labels.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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20-03-2015, 04:17 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 09:46 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(20-03-2015 02:03 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ....it's just the same lingering problem in the background between atheists like you and creationists like me.

Wait you are a creationist? As in you don't believe in evolution, that kinda creationist?

(20-03-2015 02:03 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  As far as wild statements are concerned, I hear them all the time from you folks.
Quote 1.

Generally the Vatican accepts evolution. So maybe Laramie thinks that God still created the universe, but not disregarding evolution. I don't know.
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20-03-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(19-03-2015 01:10 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  
(18-03-2015 01:38 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Atheism, like most religions, presents lies as absolute truths.

You have to make a claim to have a lie.

Atheism by itself doesn't make a claim. It is a lack of belief in any gods. It is skepticism. It means atheists don't have any faith in supernatural dieties, unlike religion. I'm not lying about a lack of belief in gods, nor can you or anyone else tell me that I believe otherwise.

So don't paint atheism as presenting a positive claim, because it clearly isn't.

Again, Laramie, I post this because you seem to ignore what atheism is about.
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20-03-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 03:23 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Going back to the title of this thread and the question it asks...

How about as a human being? Why does it have to be about Catholic or non? There are other things to talk about. There are varied interests, personal concerns, news topics, etc. How about just being a person? Period, end of labels.

Tbh, that's because of the way I asked the original question.

LH described his thinking as 'narrow' ... implying focused / fundamentalist... on a narrow path.

My question to him was about how he would go about convincing other people of a similar mindset but of a different faith.

I was after tips to help me with the muslim fundamentalists I frequently encounter i.e. trying to get a deeper understanding of how to deal with this narrow-path mentality.

I got my answer in the OP which was "dunno".

Smile

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20-03-2015, 05:37 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 05:32 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(20-03-2015 03:23 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Going back to the title of this thread and the question it asks...

How about as a human being? Why does it have to be about Catholic or non? There are other things to talk about. There are varied interests, personal concerns, news topics, etc. How about just being a person? Period, end of labels.

Tbh, that's because of the way I asked the original question.

LH described his thinking as 'narrow' ... implying focused / fundamentalist... on a narrow path.

My question to him was about how he would go about convincing other people of a similar mindset but of a different faith.

I was after tips to help me with the muslim fundamentalists I frequently encounter i.e. trying to get a deeper understanding of how to deal with this narrow-path mentality.

I got my answer in the OP which was "dunno".

Smile

I still don't understand why we have to 'reach out to people' based on who believes what.

There are so many other facets to most people beyond their faith or lack thereof.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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20-03-2015, 06:00 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(20-03-2015 05:37 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(20-03-2015 05:32 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Tbh, that's because of the way I asked the original question.

LH described his thinking as 'narrow' ... implying focused / fundamentalist... on a narrow path.

My question to him was about how he would go about convincing other people of a similar mindset but of a different faith.

I was after tips to help me with the muslim fundamentalists I frequently encounter i.e. trying to get a deeper understanding of how to deal with this narrow-path mentality.

I got my answer in the OP which was "dunno".

Smile

I still don't understand why we have to 'reach out to people' based on who believes what.

There are so many other facets to most people beyond their faith or lack thereof.

Indeed. The original question related to 'how we think' rather than 'what we think'.

But in typical TTA style the conversation took a different course.

C'est la vie.

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