How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
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22-03-2015, 04:22 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
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You're a troll Larry. You pretend to be some kinda nice guy dialogue-with-atheists guy then play stupid games until everyone's tired of you and you say "See, see, no one wants to give me the time of day".

Forget answering questions, I'm done with you. Have a happy, self-satisfied, fatuous life.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-03-2015, 04:28 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(22-03-2015 03:48 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(22-03-2015 01:58 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  Laramie, I strongly advise you to watch the above to learn about burden of proof before going forward.


Howdy again, KG.

I watched the video you suggested. Very informative. I am aware that if I am to convince you that God is real, then the burden of proof is on my shoulders. That has always been clear to me. And I see that you folks don't like having the burden of proof put on your shoulders when a theist will ask you to prove that God does not exist.

But no matter how much we play with the concept of the burden of proof, I still claim that I have no burden to prove that God is real. Not in this thread.

Why?

Because neither in this thread--nor in any thread on TTA--have I sought out to convince anyone that God is real.

In this thread, I set out to explain how wonderful I am at reaching out to non-Catholics. In a previous thread, I set out to explain a statement about how there is no "evil" for atheists, only consensus among populations. In the latter, the burden of proof was on my shoulders to prove my statement true. Next week, the burden of proof will be on my shoulders as I tell morondog how atheists are religious and how atheism is a religion.

Everything else has been window dressing.

This is probably why Whiskey gets upset when I deny having to prove anything when he argues: We have no need to provide proof your god is not real at all, the burden of proof is entirely on you.

If I come off as a Catholic who says that God exists and that He has interacted with mankind throughout human history, and that there is an afterlife that will involve reward and punishment...it is because I am a Catholic who believes that God exists and that He has interacted with mankind throughout human history, and that there is an afterlife that will involve reward and punishment.

I've always figured that the most objective thing to do is to accept that your opponent/antagonist is what he is, that he will say what he will say, and simply focus on the particular issues that you agree to discuss.

There's a lot of baiting here that leads down tangents I do not have time for. If Whiskey or anyone cannot carry on a civil conversation with me because I believe in God, then they should butt out. In the meantime, I agree to try to stay on thread topic and give you the best answer I can as someone who is not an authority on the matter. I don't have time for diversions from the subject. If the conversation sways a little off course, I usually pursue that tangent because it will add foundation to our ongoing conversation of the primary subject.




Nice circle jerk.


But if you ever plan on reaching out to anyone who values evidence for their beliefs (as opposed to trying to bullshit other woo believers), and you don't have the evidence, then you'll be hitting a brick wall; and for good reasons.


Dip and dodge all you want, but when when it's time to put up or shut up, you got nothing; and no amount of philosophical obfuscation will hide that from those interested in the truth. Drinking Beverage

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22-03-2015, 04:54 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(22-03-2015 04:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  ...

You're a troll Larry. You pretend to be some kinda nice guy dialogue-with-atheists guy then play stupid games until everyone's tired of you and you say "See, see, no one wants to give me the time of day".

Forget answering questions, I'm done with you. Have a happy, self-satisfied, fatuous life.


I was actually going to start a thread that addressed you this week. You are either impatient or a coward.

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22-03-2015, 08:24 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(22-03-2015 04:54 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  You are either impatient or a coward.

Says the man who spent like, literally *three days* dodging one simple question. Fucking troll.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-03-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Laramie, I see this thread is fast moving at this point. Did you catch my post?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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22-03-2015, 11:22 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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22-03-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(22-03-2015 11:22 AM)Leo Wrote:  
(21-03-2015 03:04 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(21-03-2015 01:59 AM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  When you call out atheists for being religious/having faith, you have the burden of proof for that claim.

I have no burden to prove anything whatsoever.

What? Shall I expect Leo to bear the burden of proof for backing up the supposed "lies" that he claims Catholicism presents as truths? (post #52) No. I expect such horseshit here. I do not expect Leo to break out a tome that catalogs the complete list of universal truths that Leo thinks are lies. My expectations for Leo are realistic.

I could list the Catholic dogmas and discuss why the are bullshit. I was raised in the Catholic religion and I was part of it the first 18 years of my life. The thing is that you are a troll. You aren't here for a serious discussion. You aren't worth the time and effort. So no I will not waste my time with you listing the catholic dogmas and the refutations.

You had an unmatched quote tag.

Yes, of course LH bears a burden of proof for his assertions. He just doesn't get it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-03-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
I could list the Catholic dogmas and discuss why the are bullshit. I was raised in the Catholic religion and I was part of it the first 18 years of my life. The thing is that you are a troll. You aren't here for a serious discussion. You aren't worth the time and effort. So no I will not waste my time with you listing the catholic dogmas and the refutations.

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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22-03-2015, 11:50 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(22-03-2015 08:26 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Laramie, I see this thread is fast moving at this point. Did you catch my post?

Hang tight, Hafnof. I've been unable to take a closer look at it. Hope to be able to sit down this evening with a little more time.

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22-03-2015, 07:33 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(21-03-2015 10:04 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  So to me it seems like you are asking our opinion about the other route - the route that assumes your religion is true and tries to express the truth of it. Your core goal is to practice convincing us that catholicism is true. You're not ready to do that yet and I understand your reluctance.

Well, I wasn't really intending to ask any questions when I made this thread for DLJ. I was just trying to give an answer to him because he asked how I try to get through to Muslims or Protestants. But I knew that the conversation would branch out more, so that's why I made a thread for it. Of course, I have been curious about your opinions about what I said in the first few posts of this thread. But I think the conversation's a bit derailed now.

Yes, I think your statement is spot on. I'm trying to express the truth of my religion. Why? I don't know. If I express the truth of my religion—as I know it—I will get to hear what you have to say about it, and that interests me. Actually, to ask "why" is to ask why I'm here at TTA. I like kicking an idea around.

But I am not here to practice convincing you that Catholicism is true. I've already stated that I am not successful in that. I would like to hope that the TTA can just take me for what I am and stay on topic. If I feel like "taking on the burden of proof" and attempt to convince the TTA forum of the Creator's existence, I will let you know.

One thing I don't like about forums is that it can set someone up to come off as an authority on a subject.

Another thing that frustrates me about forums is the fact that people have a hard time staying on subject, and threads get derailed. There's a lot of people talking, and it is easy to lose focus.

(21-03-2015 10:04 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  In the mean-time you are going around calling atheism a religion. That's insulting to an audience you are trying to befriend, and doesn't advance your argument at all.

Again, I'm not trying to advance an argument at the moment. But future arguments, for sure. I knew that atheists scoffed at the idea of being called religious. When I casually stated that atheism is a religion a few days ago, I was reminded of that. It is strange to me that atheists find being called religious is insulting. I hope I can remember to ask why in the thread I created this week.

(21-03-2015 10:04 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  If you are trying to reach out to a group of people you must listen to them carefully. You must ask them questions and then ask clarifying questions and more questions until you understand not only the message they are trying to get across but where they are coming from on a range of issues. You must get them used to expressing themselves clearly so that you can express yourself clearly back to them. If you want to reach out to someone through logical argument you really want to get them practicing the processes of examining their own beliefs and explaining or questioning the flaws in those beliefs.

The past two weeks have been a bit messy. But I am taking note of what people say to me. I've thought of a lot of new questions and thoughts since visiting here.

(21-03-2015 10:04 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  I really think that "atheism is a religion" is a dog-whistle. It's a way of saying "I'm the right kind of person. I believe the right things. If you believe the same things as me we should be friends". It's a way of talking to other believers in code. It's a way of sneering at those you disagree with while feeling self-righteous.

I am not trying to establish that atheism is a religion in order to use that as a method for argument or conversion. I'm not using it as a stepping stone. I get the feeling that is the impression.

I said atheism is a religion the other day as an off the cuff remark. I said it because I believe it. Most fellow Catholics agree. We can discuss the truth or error of that statement in the other thread. But stating it is not some part of a plan I have.
I've been insulted with a few phrases here as well.

(21-03-2015 10:04 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  Yes, that's what most people mean these days when they say "atheist…

At some point in the future, I should ask TTA folks to define "atheist." I find that a lot of the basic foundational words tend to be perceived differently between the two camps.

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