How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
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16-03-2015, 10:29 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Nothing personal but im glad you have never converted anybody and I hope you never do.

Would you refer any future failures to here please.

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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16-03-2015, 10:43 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 12:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  Maybe you jokers need to take a step back and let the Old Man who lives in the Sky do his thing. I mean, all this guff about sacking the Vatican and other people being better at marketing than you - that's in his infallible plan right? Including every single word that gets typed at TTA forums. God is speaking through me right now, to you, telling you to take up dangerous hobbies Wink

Nah. God's plan does not mean he controls everyone and what they always say. There's a lot of wiggle room for free will. Your words are your words, my words are mine, and people's decisions are theirs.

(16-03-2015 05:52 AM)unfogged Wrote:  The fact that they are actively working towards bringing something about in the future doesn't negate the idea that they are living in, or at least longing for, the past. The system that they are working to set up is based on an understanding of how the universe works and how societies should operate that was prominent over a thousand years ago. That, for me anyway, counts as living in the past.

The same is true for Christians who are basing their goals and actions on similarly outdated beliefs. Even groups that are actively reaching out to young people are doing so not to move into the future but to drag those young people into the centuries-old worldview and, ultimately, to prevent meaningful change and progress.

I could say the same thing about Marxists. I could say that Marxism is an outdated philosophy, as it's over a century and a half old.

The fact is that Marxists, Muslims, Jews, Christians, AND atheists--none of these groups have had their utopian dream realized. And I suppose that as long as each of these groups continue to strive to achieve their goal, you could consider them futurists.

(16-03-2015 06:01 AM)Anjele Wrote:  I think the best way to reach out to anyone is to live what you believe and not preach what you believe. I have so much respect for my friend Kimberly whose faith is just such a part of her. She feels no need to preach or push. She lives her faith but understands and accepts that not everyone follows the same beliefs. She doesn't hold herself above anyone and it's obvious that her faith is honest and not just for show.

She and I have had long discussions about our opposite worldviews. In the end, we just like each other as people. Who believes or doesn't simply does not matter.

I try that too. But, seeing as how I'm not a materialist, and most of my real life compatriots are engaged in the rat race, my path isn't really an option for most people.

Gotta go, folks.

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16-03-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 10:43 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Nah. God's plan does not mean he controls everyone and what they always say. There's a lot of wiggle room for free will. Your words are your words, my words are mine, and people's decisions are theirs.

That's an amazingly stupid thing to say. Either his deity IS omnipotent, and is in charge, or it's not. Does his god go around, "Hmmm, that innocent baby I'll let suffer and starve, that one maybe not" ? Either he HAS to control everything, or nothing at all, as controlling even one thing, (by Pauili Exclusion) means EVERYTHING is affected. What a stupid cult. I would REALLY like to know how EXACTLY they think they know what their god thinks and does, anyway. Facepalm

(16-03-2015 10:43 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I could say the same thing about Marxists. I could say that Marxism is an outdated philosophy, as it's over a century and a half old.

What the fuck has Marxism have to do with anything ? Is anyone here trying to defend Marxism ? Yeah he could say that. He could say ANYTHING totally irrelevant, and apparently thinks that doing so makes some sort of relevant response.

(16-03-2015 10:43 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  The fact is that Marxists, Muslims, Jews, Christians, AND atheists--none of these groups have had their utopian dream realized. And I suppose that as long as each of these groups continue to strive to achieve their goal, you could consider them futurists.

I wasn't aware atheists had a utopian dream. Can someone point me to where we agreed to that, or where anyone discussed it seriously ? [/quote]

(16-03-2015 10:43 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I try that too. But, seeing as how I'm not a materialist, and most of my real life compatriots are engaged in the rat race, my path isn't really an option for most people.

Gotta go, folks.

Please do. Your assumption we are all "materialists" just shows the paucity of your thinking abilities, and your NEED to sterotype others. Rejecting non-existant supernatualism does not automatically leave one with any other set of values, even though Sister Mary Vagina taught him that, and he bought the line, hook, line, and sinker. I hope he realizes Mother Teresa, a non-materialist, ended up an atheist. She admitted it in her letters.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-03-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 06:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  That should tell you that maybe you shouldn't bother.

And a Roman Catholic accusing anyone of living in the past is obvious irony.

Well, Chas, as I said, the majority of people are said to be going to go down the broad path to Hell, so that means I will statistically see few converts. Plus, there is a lot of diversions out there in this age of modern leisure distractions. All one can do is hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

As far as living in the past, I will say this. Adam is the man of the past. He is the man who succumbed to the easy choice in the Garden and allowed himself to be convinced into sin because it was easier and more comfortable. Christ is the man of the future. He held out, retaining His strength to the end, and it is His example that we are to follow--which will lead us to an unstagnant future beyond death.

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16-03-2015, 01:49 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 01:14 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  As far as living in the past, I will say this. Adam is the man of the past. He is the man who succumbed to the easy choice in the Garden and allowed himself to be convinced into sin because it was easier and more comfortable. Christ is the man of the future. He held out, retaining His strength to the end, and it is His example that we are to follow--which will lead us to an unstagnant future beyond death.

El Churcho Catholico is happy that evolution works right? As in, not creationists. Please inform me which of our ape ancestors was Adam?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-03-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 01:14 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 06:54 AM)Chas Wrote:  That should tell you that maybe you shouldn't bother.

And a Roman Catholic accusing anyone of living in the past is obvious irony.

Well, Chas, as I said, the majority of people are said to be going to go down the broad path to Hell, so that means I will statistically see few converts. Plus, there is a lot of diversions out there in this age of modern leisure distractions. All one can do is hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Since there is no evidence for the existence of your Hell, that seems not the least dire.

Quote:As far as living in the past, I will say this. Adam is the man of the past. He is the man who succumbed to the easy choice in the Garden and allowed himself to be convinced into sin because it was easier and more comfortable. Christ is the man of the future. He held out, retaining His strength to the end, and it is His example that we are to follow--which will lead us to an unstagnant future beyond death.

That is all hilariously unsupported theology, myth from a superstitious age.

There is no evidence of a personal future beyond death, stagnant or not.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-03-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 10:43 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 12:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  Maybe you jokers need to take a step back and let the Old Man who lives in the Sky do his thing. I mean, all this guff about sacking the Vatican and other people being better at marketing than you - that's in his infallible plan right? Including every single word that gets typed at TTA forums. God is speaking through me right now, to you, telling you to take up dangerous hobbies Wink

Nah. God's plan does not mean he controls everyone and what they always say. There's a lot of wiggle room for free will. Your words are your words, my words are mine, and people's decisions are theirs.

... So the marketing aspect is *not* part of God's infallible plan? You've got a means of determining what's in his plan and what's not?

Here lemme share a nice verse with you from the very mouth of Jesus: Mark 4, verses 11-12: "He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables so that,
“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’”"

Do you see that - God deliberately *doesn't want people to figure out how to save themselves*... Is that goddamn nasty or what?

Dickish old boy, your deity, what? Not the kinda master I'd be following. And that's not to mention his (claimed) Earthly representatives either...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-03-2015, 02:18 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 12:17 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I've thought about DLJ's question for a few days, now. I figured that the best way to answer his question--especially since it was off topic--was to just devote a new thread to it.

I can't promise I will be able to devote too much attention to this thread right now (I'll do what I can), since I'm already backlogged in another thread. But the internet's a wonderful place, in that you can just pick up where you left off quite a bit later from when you started it.

Here's how the exchange and question went:

(13-03-2015 07:28 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Since we have you here and you're here to probe, I hope you don't mind a little return-probing.

I know many people (colleagues) with this mindset. I'm sure you can guess my opinion of this narrow-mindedness but if you want to probe / confirm your guesses, feel free to ask... there are no 'atheist-only' sections on TTA, btw.

None of these people are catholics.

Incidentally, I know many people who use the 'label' of 'catholic' but without exception this is simply a recognition of the tradition within which they have been raised. Not a single one has read the bible and a subset (the majority) are confused when I describe them as christian... somewhere along the road, here, 'christian' has started to mean protestant. These are largely 'present-hedonists' because we're so close to the equator... see the first few minutes of the video below for a brief explanation of that.

No, the people to whom I refer who have the same mindset as you describe above are either non-catholic christians or muslims.

They seems to live in the past (e.g. bring back the Caliphate! or like that other SD-guy on the 'used-to-be-Respectul-to-Catholics thread' who pines for Vatican I) or the future (after-life, hell, etc.) after death is all that matters ... again, see video, below.

So my question is...

How would you go about explaining to them the error of their ways?

What techniques have you used and which have been successful?

Thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3oIiH7BLmg

I've watched the video you recommended. I would agree that it seems as though many non-Catholic Christians--which I just simply call Protestant--live in the past. I would say that also, perhaps yes, even the ultra-Traditionalist Catholics such as sedevacantists seem to live in the past.

But in terms of religion, you cannot simply blanket-label these denominations like that.

Let's take Muslims. Yes, it appears as though they live in the past for the past caliphates. But, if you pay attention to your daily news, you will read about how there are countless men from wealthy backgrounds in Western countries who are pouring into Iraq and Syria to bring about a new caliphate. They want a worldwide Islamic State, and they are diligently working to bring that reality to us all.

I will not be surprised if I start to see the destruction of many historical Catholic landmarks--including the Vatican--in my lifetime. The will of the West to oppose them is weak and pretty much non-existent.

I would say that the Muslims of today are diligently living in the future and working to achieve a planned goal.

What about Protestants? Again, some seem to live in the past. Take, for example, my old Baptist church. (I used to be Baptist.) The building is huge, and it costs a fortune to power it and keep it air-conditioned. Who pays for those bills? A small handful of old people who will not be with us much longer. They do not know how to get a youth program going, and last I left them, they did not know how to evangelize, let alone market themselves in the manner of a megachurch. The church's fate is sealed, and I don't know if it will last the decade. The people there live in the past.

Some protestant mega churches work and work their butts off to bring about material prosperity. We have all seen these. Joel Olsteen, anyone? Clearly, these organizations are future-oriented. They hire marketing strategists to rope in more people to attend their stadiums, and thus they increase their income inflow.

Sedevacantists? A lot of them appear to be living in the past, as you said. But the key word is "appear." It seems that many of them are working in different ways to enlarge their numbers. It is true that the sedes do not appear to be future-oriented--but that may be because they believe it is now up to God, at this point, to set the world right. Myself, I see no harm in trying to improve the world or the Church, but a lot of them are sitting on their hands.

I'd say that for practicing and faithful Catholics--and probably a few non-Catholics out there who I have not seen--these people also live for the future. But their work and toil involves prayer, and their currency is spiritual grace. Such people are working to invest in Heaven. In my personal life, I don't know too many people who are like this. I try to be this way, but I know I fail the standards I set for myself quite often. Still, I try.

Now, you asked me what strategies I use to reach out to these people?

My answer? I have no idea. I haven't figured out a single strategy yet.

When it comes to religion, I do not really think I have convinced too many people at all. Lord knows, I've tried. But the world is not filled with ignorant people. Most people have made up their minds about these matters, and it is up to individuals to decide to listen to others. I have never been able to convince either a friend, co-worker, or colleague on the internet to change.

Different people have different priorities, and they get irritated if you try to tell them what their priorities should be. Most people live in the present and just don't give a care. So, what can ya do? Such is life.

Maybe apologetics is not what God meant for me, and it's beyond my station in life. I don't know.

I will "witness" whenever I see it is called for. But no one calls for it. In fact, after my conversion, most of my friends have been careful ever since to not bring up religion or ask me why I believe what I believe (it's been 14 years, now). Converting to the Church has ostracized me from most of my friends and family. Is there any "reaching out" to that? Nah. I tried a time or two, but I just got dismissal in return.


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You got this future and past business all jumbled in your head.

Muslims live in the dark ages where people get stoned and killed and mutilated. They are looking toward a future in heaven, but in the present they want the rest of the world to dwell in the past with them.

Catholics are doing a bit better, they don't live as much in the past, but waste the present working towards a future after death.

If you want to reach out to people, how about affording some of them real, tangible help in the present instead of the total cop-out of "I'll pray for you"?

I wonder why you switched to Catholicism? You seem to want to convert people, that's not so much a Catholic sport as a Baptist one.

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16-03-2015, 05:42 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 12:17 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ...
Now, you asked me what strategies I use to reach out to these people?

My answer? I have no idea. I haven't figured out a single strategy yet.
...

OK. Thanks for the honest response.

So it would appear that convincing the narrow-minded that their fixed beliefs are taking them down the wrong path is not as easy as showing them that there is no fixed path.

Food for thought.

Cheers.

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16-03-2015, 11:02 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(16-03-2015 05:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 12:17 AM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ...
Now, you asked me what strategies I use to reach out to these people?

My answer? I have no idea. I haven't figured out a single strategy yet.
...

OK. Thanks for the honest response.

So it would appear that convincing the narrow-minded that their fixed beliefs are taking them down the wrong path is not as easy as showing them that there is no fixed path.

Food for thought.

Cheers.

Two vast ideas come into my mind when you say this.

#1 I'd like to reciprocate:

It appears that convincing the broad-minded that their unfixed beliefs are taking them down the wrong path is not as easy as showing them that there is a fixed path.


(Meh. I'm wrong on that, too. Just a play with words. It's hard to show the former a fixed path as well. So...it's hard to convince people they're wrong, and it's hard to demonstrate a fixed path. People are the way they are.)

#2. Clear your mind for a moment.

Okay. Let's re-read what you told me:

Quote:it would appear that convincing the narrow-minded that their fixed beliefs are taking them down the wrong path is not as easy as showing them that there is no fixed path

So, here you are saying that it is easy to show someone that there is no fixed path.

Ironically enough, Pope Francis tries to show people there is no fixed path in a lot of round-about ways. He is very liberal, and shows himself unconcerned with converting people into the Church.

One time, he was talking with an Anglican priest. The Anglican mentioned something about having Anglicans convert into the Roman Catholic Church, and Pope Francis laughed and said, "Oh! I like you just as you are! No need to convert!"

Pope Francis is what you call "ecumenical." He's the kind of guy who likes to play the "everybody's right, live and let live" card.

In your words, Pope Francis likes to "show that there is no fixed path."

What has the effect been? Liberal (seemingly unfaithful) Catholics love him, and the secular populations love him. Meanwhile, traditional (seemingly faithful) Catholics feel abandoned and abused by him.

The conservatives have become more calloused, and the liberals have become emboldened.

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