How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
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08-04-2015, 10:37 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  ... Wrote lots of interesting stuff...

.....It is hard to focus on one voice. If you just talk with one person....

Hello! Big Grin

So, if you'd like to chat one on one with an atheist? I'd be more than happy to pop into the right place of the forum and converse with yourself. Smile

Much cheers to all.
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08-04-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  My plan, in the future, is to hopefully recognize when I do not have an answer. For what it's worth, my time here on TTA has been educational for me. Yes, it has been difficult, most folks here hate my guts, and my beliefs are always challenged. However, if I just stayed safe in some enclave, I would not know what I know now. Make no mistake, I still believe in what I believe--the Catholic Faith. However, at this point, I am starting to see how I believe, if that makes sense.

Not so, old bean. I see you're still sorta convinced that your problem isn't evasion and bullshit, but some weird idea that it's because you can't answer everyone at once that people get angry with you... Anyway, most of your post... It takes balls to say what you just said. Hard to admit one's own faults, I know that much.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-04-2015, 01:34 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Laramie: I'm very late to this party and I've only read the last couple of pages. But I wanted to say I was very impressed with your post. It's extremely rare to see a theist ever back down and admit their preconceptions were wrong. On AF I have given up on many theists because after about 8 months of talking to them, they are still holding onto their faulty preconceptions and not properly listening to anything I say.

So good for you for trying to further your understanding, rather than just continuing to decide what atheists are on their behalf.

It must be incredibly frustrating trying to explain your position to an atheist, I sympathise. But by doing so, you may learn a lot about what you believe, and more importantly, why you believe it.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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09-04-2015, 07:12 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  My plan, in the future, is to hopefully recognize when I do not have an answer. For what it's worth, my time here on TTA has been educational for me. Yes, it has been difficult, most folks here hate my guts, and my beliefs are always challenged. However, if I just stayed safe in some enclave, I would not know what I know now. Make no mistake, I still believe in what I believe--the Catholic Faith.

Morondog, and others, already said it but it deserves emphasis: I doubt anybody here hates your guts, we hate the "arguments" that you, and many theists, come in with. Attacking the belief and/or the approach is not attacking the person.

If you want to talk to atheists try asking what they believe and how they came to the conclusions they did. When you start off telling us what you think we think it isn't going to go well.

Quote: However, at this point, I am starting to see how I believe, if that makes sense.

That's a good first step and it may well help you understand how others could reach different conclusions.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-04-2015, 07:31 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Sure, I haven't spent as much time on this forum than AF but my feelings towards theists very rarely approach anything like hate. If they are promoting something I find utterly repulsive and immoral I find their ideas disgusting and in need of serious beatings, but I don't hate the person.

To me, and many atheists I think, the person and their beliefs/ideas are seperated in a discussion. I can beat on someone's beliefs all day, but I'm not in any way meaning to insult the person. And although atheism isn't a belief, if people beat up on atheism, I don't take that personally.

So I doubt people hate you, unless you have been actually attacking people directly. If you put forward arguments people find irrational, that shouldn't make people hate you. They may get annoyed if you refuse to honestly engage with them, but it seems you are taking steps to rectify this. So good for you! I can't say the same about many previous theists I've talked to.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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09-04-2015, 08:08 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  Yes, it has been difficult, most folks here hate my guts, and my beliefs are always challenged. However, if I just stayed safe in some enclave, I would not know what I know now. Make no mistake, I still believe in what I believe--the Catholic Faith. However, at this point, I am starting to see how I believe, if that makes sense.

I don't think anyone here hates you - that's just your Christian persecution complex.
I suggest you drop that - it is an embarrassment for you.

You believe what you believe because you have been indoctrinated.
Step outside the indoctrination by honestly looking at other views.

I, for one, just consider your views delusional and irrational. If you take that as 'hate', then that is probably a result of your indoctrination.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-04-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(09-04-2015 08:08 AM)Chas Wrote:  I, for one, just consider your views delusional and irrational. If you take that as 'hate', then that is probably a result of your indoctrination.

Nah Tongue He takes "You bastard stop being such a lying weasel and sit still so I can insult you" as evidence of hate... It's ye famous Christian martyrdom. You stick 'em in a big room with a friendly, playful pussy cat and they scream that you're throwing them to the lions... Rolleyes

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-04-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
Atheists are taught to hate the claim, not the claimant.

Now where have I heard that before?
Consider

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-04-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(09-04-2015 09:56 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Atheists are taught to hate the claim, not the claimant.

Now where have I heard that before?
Consider

It's all that stuff but frankly I don't hold myself to any moral standard. I would happily hate him... But it's so goddamn effortful to hate someone - I mean you have to really be perpetually pissed off with them... Meh Sleepy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-04-2015, 07:00 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2015 07:06 PM by Stevil.)
RE: How do I (a Catholic) reach out to non-Catholics...
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I do not know how to defend my arguments to faithless people.
You don't have to defend your position or your beliefs.
But, if you are trying to convince us as to the merits of an argument then you do need to be able to present that argument in a compelling way.
Us atheists and skeptics have a different criteria for "compelling" in comparison to what theists have. Right off the bat we generally assume there is no magic or supernatural force evident in the universe and would require substantial evidence in support of such claims.
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I only have experience in conversation with fellow religious folks--and even then, I am not successful. I am not an apologist, an ideal "witness," a theologian, or a persuasive essayist.
It depends as to what you would consider as "successful".
If you come here with the intent to understand us and our worldview better then you could meet with a successful outcome.
If you now recognise that atheist means lack of belief in gods and not necessarily a belief that there are no gods, then this could be seen as a success.
If you recognise that most atheists don't have atheistic rituals, customs or beliefs and this leads you to recognise that atheism isn't a religion and isn't really an -ism then that would be a success too.
If you recognise that atheists in general don't run around trying to convert others, generally don't mind others having various beliefs then that would be a success.
If you recognise that atheists want the freedom within society to be open and to not have to pray or have god's on their money or have to sing about god in the national anthem or have activities outlaws due to a specific religion's position e.g. gay marriage, then this would also be a success.
(08-04-2015 10:13 PM)LaramieHirsch Wrote:  I'm just a regular guy.
There is no reason why you can't make friends here get to share similarities and explore differences.
But remember, friends don't tell their friends how they think, they ask them how they think. They put effort into getting to know each other, into learning about each other rather than incorrectly characterising each other.
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