How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
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22-06-2017, 11:50 PM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
(22-06-2017 11:27 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  This is my argument that bypasses the "mysterious greater good unknown plan" argument. You can substitute anything that causes pain and suffering for genocide in it, too.

Question: Can "God" achieve whatever aims he has in mind without including genocide in it?

If no: he's not all powerful.

If yes: then he chooses to include genocide, and all the suffering that comes with it, for no greater gain.

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewill! Blanket term meaning "Wa wa wa wa wa I'm not listening. God is Good! Hallelujah! I'm not listening!"

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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22-06-2017, 11:57 PM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
Lol right Tongue

We're left with, "God can do whatever he wants, because he's God motherfucker!"

Sure he can. That's his definition. It's not a justification. It's an admission that such a person would such his dick regardless of what he does, "good" or "evil". It's the mindset of being desperate to prostrate yourself before the most powerful thing you can find, motivated by fear or greed for blessings.

I want to do a video about "free will". It's such a lame response, it shows a complete unwillingness to think. Some people, people I've actually talked to, seem to think it's some silver bullet in debate.

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22-06-2017, 11:59 PM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
(22-06-2017 11:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 11:27 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  This is my argument that bypasses the "mysterious greater good unknown plan" argument. You can substitute anything that causes pain and suffering for genocide in it, too.

Question: Can "God" achieve whatever aims he has in mind without including genocide in it?

If no: he's not all powerful.

If yes: then he chooses to include genocide, and all the suffering that comes with it, for no greater gain.

Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewill! Blanket term meaning "Wa wa wa wa wa I'm not listening. God is Good! Hallelujah! I'm not listening!"

Freewill doesn't save one from explaining away amoral instances of suffering, like those caused by natural disasters, droughts, plagues, and fuckin' asteroid strikes.

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23-06-2017, 12:06 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
(22-06-2017 11:59 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-06-2017 11:50 PM)morondog Wrote:  Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewill! Blanket term meaning "Wa wa wa wa wa I'm not listening. God is Good! Hallelujah! I'm not listening!"

Freewill doesn't save one from explaining away amoral instances of suffering, like those caused by natural disasters, droughts, plagues, and fuckin' asteroid strikes.

Suffering helps us to grow Dodgy I can do this shit all fucking day. Insert ridiculous "mysterious ways" quote with reference to Bible verse. Insert head into rectum.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-06-2017, 12:10 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
(22-06-2017 11:57 PM)Robvalue Wrote:  It's the mindset of being desperate to prostrate yourself before the most powerful thing you can find, motivated by fear or greed for blessings.

I think it's more pure cognitive dissonance. Same with the other common response which is "He's God, therefore whatever he does is defined as good".

These clowns are so disturbed by the implications of an evil God that they construct any ridiculous stupid argument to avoid that, like a five year old attempting to hide under their comfort blanket.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-06-2017, 12:18 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
Good point. One more lie to yourself is always easier than considering that you might be sitting on nothing but a big pile of lies.

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23-06-2017, 01:31 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
(22-06-2017 04:25 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  Send him to a good Christian web forum, where they can straighten him out. No Christian I know of thinks that genocide is moral or likely to be done by their God under the new covenant as represented by the New Testament.

This post is offered without reading the debate you are having with him.

No christian I know condemn space fairy for genocide he already "committed" so sending him to good christian forum may not work like you think it would.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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23-06-2017, 02:29 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
Those people are saying it's okay to kill people as long as the correct voice in your head is telling you to do so. That's a scary way to think.

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23-06-2017, 02:47 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
(22-06-2017 06:38 PM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Having not seen the Reddit argument, I imagine the Christian is relying upon Divine Command Theory (DCT); that is, anything done by God, whatever it is, is somehow good because it comes from God.

Firstly, you're unlikely to change his/her mind no matter what facts and arguments you present because their worldview is already set in stone. Arguing with data and rationality will cause them to further double-down and increase their intransigence. See The Backfire Effect.

That said, there are plenty of refutations available, starting with "First you have to prove a God exists in order to make the assumption that what God does is automatically good. So, let's see your proof."

That's unlikely to win them over, however.

More detailed outlines of DCT and refutations of same can be found here:
Divine Command Theory and More on Divine Command Theory.

I have to insist and ask how somebody knows hes following Gods orders and not Satan? Consider
Because God says so? Satan would say so as well. Drinking Beverage

How.do.they.know.they.are.listening.to.god.and.not.satan?

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23-06-2017, 03:09 AM
RE: How do I convince a Christian that genocide is always immoral?
It seems like your concerned more about BEING Right than you are about right. Remember that public debates are for the lurkers. Your goal is not to prove that your right. Your goal is to 1 verify your own position (is this position correct), and 2 to show the lurker flaws in the other persons argument. At this point you "win" by conceding. "I'm sorry but at this point i have to concede. I cannot have a conversation with someone who actually thinks extermination of an entire society is okay."
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