How do I put this...
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12-07-2012, 06:29 PM
How do I put this...
I lost my family. Took me four years, but I lost them to the Witnesses.

I still have their email addresses. I'm ready to sent my parents the motherload of visual information of their religion.

So far all it has been was me telling them I wanted no part of their religion, and that I wasn't going back.

My folks have the thing of staying away for awhile, and then calling in a week or two to see if I'm alive. After a few weeks of conversation, it's back to the same song and dance; we want you to come back. Also the rest of the family is held up as bait, their support system is suspended, and I'm told I did a bad thing, and that it's my own fault and that love is conditional. It sort of sucks knowing I'll always love them, but I don't like them at all right now!

Sending them the motherload is like me raising a shield against their emotional abusiveness and attacks on my character.

I realize that they can't change their way of thinking; the reason why I'm thinking of taking this last stand.

It's not to change their way of thinking, their beliefs, but to trigger their resolve. The resolve is their shield against disobeying their god, and in turn my shield from them.

Deep down what I really want my folks. So far there isn't any sign of them. All that is is scripture, twisted, skewed and morphed scripture.

I don't know what else to write. Hope you understand, and maybe can help me gain some clarity. I tried with them, now I'm trying with you guys/gals.
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12-07-2012, 08:38 PM
RE: How do I put this...
Hey, CTS.

Ouff. Heavy stuff.

Estrangement sucks, dude. Simple as that. Aint no other way to say it.

I don't know about this motherload. Part of me thinks it might be better to just cut and run instead of picking a fight. Know what I mean? I don't know, maybe it's a good idea... My gut's telling me no though.

I guess the hardest part is accepting the possibility that this is the end of your relationship with your family. I'm not saying it necessarily is, but it's a possibility. That's gotta suck, brother.

It sounds like you're both pretty entrenched. My gut's telling me that this one doesn't get solved until it becomes about accepting each other's positions and changing the relationship focus away from cultural unity and back to family unity. But that might not be possible.

I know a guy, when he was 16, he told his parents he wanted to learn English and they threw him out and disowned him. Their position seems harsher than your parents; it was some real sketchy "you're not my son" kinda BS. But they've never spoken since.

I don't know. I may be rambling. I have no answers for you per-se. I think the most important thing for you to do is to focus on you. Live your life. If there's room for reconciliation at some point, I'd be happy for you. If not, you need to be healthy.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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12-07-2012, 09:19 PM
RE: How do I put this...
The Motherload is a collection of carefully tailored photographs that
will be the only composite of the email; an advertisement, of sorts. One
image, enough within to send the message of why I won't go back.

Quote:My gut's telling me that this one doesn't get solved until it becomes
about accepting each other's positions and changing the relationship
focus away from cultural unity and back to family unity. But that might
not be possible.
I tried that. Two months ago, I suggested we implement it. That was when everything shut down.
Quote:I don't know. I may be rambling. I have no answers for you per-se. I
think the most important thing for you to do is to focus on you. Live
your life. If there's room for reconciliation at some point, I'd be
happy for you. If not, you need to be healthy.
I'm not looking for answers. I'm looking to see from an angle that's not my own; my view feels like that of through a kaleidoscope. That's why I want to do this, despite seeing still through said kaleidoscope. I've had no time to lick my wounds. I need space from them, albeit a more permanent space. It's like an amputation, if you get right down to it. Cut out the dead/diseased tissue to save the rest of the body.

If I really wanted to try and get back into their lives, I could always employ the tactics they use, for they seem to respond more favorably to their own devices. But that goes against my nature.

CTS
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12-07-2012, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2012 09:39 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: How do I put this...
Don't think I can help you cheaptrick, other than to say I can't relate. Raised non-denominational Baptist (whatever the fuck that means, generic Christian I guess) and educated in a Lutheran school K-9. At the ripe old age of 17 (some 32 years ago now Shocking ) I told my family "This promise of a postmortem preservation of identity is total and complete untenable bullshit and anyone selling it is a fucking snake oil salesman trying to con you." They didn't disown or ostracize me, they prayed for me. My mom's still praying for my sorry ass. My responses to her ongoing prayers for me by decade go like this:

In my 20's: Mom, how can you be so stupid?
In my 30's: Mom, why do you even bother?
In my 40's: Meh ... whatever.
Heading into my 50's: Love you too Mom. Heart

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-07-2012, 09:35 PM
RE: How do I put this...
(12-07-2012 06:29 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  I lost my family. Took me four years, but I lost them to the Witnesses.

I still have their email addresses. I'm ready to sent my parents the motherload of visual information of their religion.

So far all it has been was me telling them I wanted no part of their religion, and that I wasn't going back.

My folks have the thing of staying away for awhile, and then calling in a week or two to see if I'm alive. After a few weeks of conversation, it's back to the same song and dance; we want you to come back. Also the rest of the family is held up as bait, their support system is suspended, and I'm told I did a bad thing, and that it's my own fault and that love is conditional. It sort of sucks knowing I'll always love them, but I don't like them at all right now!

Sending them the motherload is like me raising a shield against their emotional abusiveness and attacks on my character.

I realize that they can't change their way of thinking; the reason why I'm thinking of taking this last stand.

It's not to change their way of thinking, their beliefs, but to trigger their resolve. The resolve is their shield against disobeying their god, and in turn my shield from them.

Deep down what I really want my folks. So far there isn't any sign of them. All that is is scripture, twisted, skewed and morphed scripture.

I don't know what else to write. Hope you understand, and maybe can help me gain some clarity. I tried with them, now I'm trying with you guys/gals.
Thank you for sharing and for reminding me why I decided to become an active member of the atheist, humanist, secular, skeptic, anti-religious movement.

Join the Logic Speaks Community

I am the unconverted
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12-07-2012, 09:45 PM
RE: How do I put this...
(12-07-2012 09:35 PM)lightninlives Wrote:  Thank you for sharing and for reminding me why I decided to become an active member of the atheist, humanist, secular, skeptic, anti-religious movement.

I am not yet convinced. About the active part I mean. ... Well other than this forum I guess. Blush

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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12-07-2012, 09:59 PM
RE: How do I put this...
(12-07-2012 09:19 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  
Quote:My gut's telling me that this one doesn't get solved until it becomes
about accepting each other's positions and changing the relationship
focus away from cultural unity and back to family unity. But that might
not be possible.

I tried that. Two months ago, I suggested we implement it. That was when everything shut down.

Doesn't mean it won't work. My parents are Christians and I'm an atheist, and we get along fine. Occasionally we argue about politics (which are almost necessarily different) and religion, but it's not likely that any of us will change our minds, so these discussions are rare. If your parents want to get along, chances are they'll have to agree to disagree -- and so will you. Just because it hasn't happened right away doesn't mean that it won't ever; that's just impatience speaking.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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12-07-2012, 10:05 PM
RE: How do I put this...
I know that must hurt your feelings. Be strong and time may show them how wrong they are. J W's really mess with the mind and family. You may want to read Kingdom of the cults. It is a religious Christian book. But it shows what they believe and how it strays from reality. NOT that the bible is any more real either. But you can use that book to show how that religion started. How they twist things to what they believe. How they have changed things over and over. I believe in 1919 they said the world was coming to a end and only the 144,000 were going to heaven. Now they have millions of followers and they have changed their teaching.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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12-07-2012, 10:11 PM
RE: How do I put this...
(12-07-2012 09:59 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  
(12-07-2012 09:19 PM)cheapthrillseaker Wrote:  I tried that. Two months ago, I suggested we implement it. That was when everything shut down.

Doesn't mean it won't work. My parents are Christians and I'm an atheist, and we get along fine. Occasionally we argue about politics (which are almost necessarily different) and religion, but it's not likely that any of us will change our minds, so these discussions are rare. If your parents want to get along, chances are they'll have to agree to disagree -- and so will you. Just because it hasn't happened right away doesn't mean that it won't ever; that's just impatience speaking.

Blood is thicker than metaphysics in my experience. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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13-07-2012, 07:56 AM
RE: How do I put this...
If you can manage a while longer just start slipping more things into your responses. I'm not experienced with family leaving me (I left them), but rather than raise their shield you might possibly be able to convince them to back off the scripture a little if you're careful about it. If you do unload it will be basically cutting them off. Maybe you're ready for that though. I've never seriously liked my parents, but it's always been important to me that we can talk. It takes a lot more than 2 years to convince a parent you're on the right path when you go against their wishes. Mention a little and they may eventualy decide against shunning you so harshly.


Then again, if it's really more than you can handle you have your answer. You don't really need them so even if it hurts, sometimes cutting them off is a good thing. I cut off an entire side of my family, it made a difference for me but still hurts. It hurts less than trying to be there though. Think a while longer on this if you really want your parents. Staying rational is a way to eventually convince an irrational parent to think twice, but don't risk more than you can handle on this. You have a life to live.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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