How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
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20-09-2014, 08:50 PM
How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
it doesn't seem like a very valid argument, but it's kinda difficult to dig yourself out of
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20-09-2014, 09:05 PM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
....this is one of the most stupid questions ever.

It is like trying to say, you have faith in something that is already proven to exist. It does not make any logical sense.


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20-09-2014, 09:09 PM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(20-09-2014 08:50 PM)donlee600 Wrote:  it doesn't seem like a very valid argument, but it's kinda difficult to dig yourself out of

Faith - the belief in something without evidence.

Delusion: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. A belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.

Religion - The embracement of delusion.

None of the above has anything to do with logic and reason.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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20-09-2014, 09:20 PM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(20-09-2014 08:50 PM)donlee600 Wrote:  it doesn't seem like a very valid argument, but it's kinda difficult to dig yourself out of

Reason works, faith does not; and so we can have confidence in it because it has a proven track record of getting shit done right. See also: Medicine, Science, Engineering, etc.

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20-09-2014, 09:21 PM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
Reason is just a word meaning you base your position on logic and evidence... So to say you have faith in it is nonsense.

If they take it down to logic and evidence, you can easily get out of their trap. Quite simply, logic and evidence have shown to be the most effective way of understanding the universe. It is through their employment that we have built the modern world... In construction, technology, medicine, defense etc... To say nothing of the advances in science in general. So far, faith (which is nothing more than an emotional guess) has done little or nothing to advance human knowledge... In fact, throughout history it has worked to impede scientific progress at every turn.

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20-09-2014, 09:32 PM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
You could point out the equivocation.

Do you have faith (believe / think / know) that reasoning is useful? Of course.

Do you treat reasoning as a Faith (a dogma)? Nah.

Faith as a start point for reasoning will give you biased results.

Faith as an end point (a conclusion following an analysis or a risk assessment) gives you the results you get based on the data you use.

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20-09-2014, 11:14 PM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
I would reply "Justify your statement with the reasons why you think that's true."

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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20-09-2014, 11:58 PM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 12:03 AM by Tartarus Sauce.)
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
Reason is a self-contained set of axiomatic principles. Faith simply isn't a part of the equation, to suggest it is would contradict the entire system. From an epistemological standpoint, one could, of course, highlight that no system can lead to absolute certainty, but such is not a statement that equalizes the veracity of all methodologies. To state that "one must have faith in reason," however, is a false equivocation specifically designed to make such appear to be the case. It's an appeal to the lesser argument; like mocking the runner for failing to reach the finish line because he fumbled on the last hurdle, but willfully ignoring the fact that you fumbled all the way back at the first.

When the finish line is unreachable, the only measure that matters is how close you can get to it, not that everybody fails in the end.

So yes, you do have "faith" in reason, but not nearly as much as your opponent has "faith" in faith.

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21-09-2014, 12:14 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
People who say things like faith in reason and faith in science ultimately don't know the definition of faith is. Ask them what it the definition is, correct them, and explain that reason/Science is based on evidence.
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21-09-2014, 01:30 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
I would shout "Jesus" point behind them then when they turn around run away.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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