How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
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21-09-2014, 03:18 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(21-09-2014 01:30 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  I would shout "Jesus" point behind them then when they turn around run away.

Bowing

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21-09-2014, 06:07 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(20-09-2014 08:50 PM)donlee600 Wrote:  it doesn't seem like a very valid argument, but it's kinda difficult to dig yourself out of

When someone claims that I have faith in something, I ask them for a clear definition of the word "faith." In this instance, they are probably using it to mean "trust," which means that they are accusing me of trusting a method of figuring things out that has been shown to be reliable time and time again. Guilty as charged.

If they are doing this to try to justify their own faith in something else (like the Bible), I'd explain that just because one person finds one thing trustworthy doesn't excuse another person to find any other thing trustworthy; the trustworthiness of various things are independent and must be justified independently.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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21-09-2014, 07:28 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
Knowthesilence hit it on the head. It's a manipulative word game. Faith has two meanings and it's intellectually dishonest to interchange one with the other to prove your irrational point. But being intellectually dishonest is a cornerstone of religion. Confidence doesn't equal irrational belief.

It's the same thing as the word theory in that the ignorant believer doesn't know the scientific definition of theory so they use the layman's "hunch" version to persuade other sheeple to follow their lead.

It's so sad that an entire belief system has to try to play word games to justify their irrational behavior.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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21-09-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(21-09-2014 07:28 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Knowthesilence hit it on the head. It's a manipulative word game. Faith has two meanings and it's intellectually dishonest to interchange one with the other to prove your irrational point. But being intellectually dishonest is a cornerstone of religion. Confidence doesn't equal irrational belief.

It's the same thing as the word theory in that the ignorant believer doesn't know the scientific definition of theory so they use the layman's "hunch" version to persuade other sheeple to follow their lead.

It's so sad that an entire belief system has to try to play word games to justify their irrational behavior.

I've wondered what the point is a theist is trying to make when they say an atheist needs just as much faith to believe in atheism. Are they saying that their way of knowing about the world is just as flawed as an atheist? Therefore atheism is on equal grounds? I guess so, I suppose I would agree that their way is flawed and point out to them that knowing things based on evidence as opposed to faith is vastly and inherently superior.

[Image: religioin-demands-evidence.jpg]

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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21-09-2014, 07:59 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(21-09-2014 07:46 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(21-09-2014 07:28 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Knowthesilence hit it on the head. It's a manipulative word game. Faith has two meanings and it's intellectually dishonest to interchange one with the other to prove your irrational point. But being intellectually dishonest is a cornerstone of religion. Confidence doesn't equal irrational belief.

It's the same thing as the word theory in that the ignorant believer doesn't know the scientific definition of theory so they use the layman's "hunch" version to persuade other sheeple to follow their lead.

It's so sad that an entire belief system has to try to play word games to justify their irrational behavior.

I've wondered what the point is a theist is trying to make when they say an atheist needs just as much faith to believe in atheism. Are they saying that their way of knowing about the world is just as flawed as an atheist? Therefore atheism is on equal grounds? I guess so, I suppose I would agree that their way is flawed and point out to them that knowing things based on evidence as opposed to faith is vastly and inherently superior.
That is often where these conversations are intended to go. When someone can't show that their conclusions or their epistemology are better than their opponents, they try to level to playing field at say that what they believe is at least as plausible as what the other person believes. Press this hard enough, many people will then reach the point where they go "well, no one can really know anything, anyway." At which point the conversation is pretty much over.

I'm just thinking out loud.
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21-09-2014, 08:07 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
I would respond by saying we don't need or want to have faith in reason because reasonable thinking generates theories to predict results, and allows for corrections along the way as we fine tune our way to the truth. Contrast that with religion and faith which has yet to predict any outcome, ever !

don't believe everything you think
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21-09-2014, 08:53 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(20-09-2014 08:50 PM)donlee600 Wrote:  it doesn't seem like a very valid argument, but it's kinda difficult to dig yourself out of

No it is not.

Anything useful that is universal that everyone uses is testable and falsifiable. "Faith" is lack of testing, lack of scrutiny lack of falsification.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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21-09-2014, 09:05 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2014 09:12 AM by Ace.)
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
(20-09-2014 09:32 PM)DLJ Wrote:  You could point out the equivocation.

Do you have faith (believe / think / know) that reasoning is useful? Of course.

Do you treat reasoning as a Faith (a dogma)? Nah.

Faith as a start point for reasoning will give you biased results.

Faith as an end point (a conclusion following an analysis or a risk assessment) gives you the results you get based on the data you use.

Smartass

use for faith

step1:get idea
step2: have faith hat its true till you have a working thesis to test
step3: before you start testing, throw faith out with the trash
step4: if results contradict your faith, take it out of the trash and burn it till its gone for good and never go back to it

PS: I got bored
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21-09-2014, 09:50 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
Respond with, "Your faith is my reason to believe you're an idiot."
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21-09-2014, 10:32 AM
RE: How do I respond to "You have faith in reason"?
show him this picture...

[Image: 2lng1t0.jpg]

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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