How do atheists identify something as designed?
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16-11-2013, 06:18 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 09:51 AM)Cephalotus Wrote:  If something serves it's purpose/function with a minimum of add-ons, it's designed. If something has inconsistencies, contradictions or hindrances, it occurs naturally and evolved slowly.

I hope I used the right terminology for all that. Tongue

How do creationists tell that something is NOT designed?
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16-11-2013, 06:23 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
Find the blueprints for it?

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16-11-2013, 06:41 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 04:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As a theists, I look for precision. The more precise a thing, the more likely that thing is to be designed(its never proof because random happenstance could result in something precise). What do atheists look for in determining whether or not something is designed?

Why do theists like yourself think the world was designed by a God? The Bible and lots of theists like this arrogant notion that the world was designed just for them, by a God who loves each individual ever so much. He even sent his son down in our image.

However look around you. That might have been believable 2000 years ago when people had an excuse to be ignorant, but today we have so much information at our hands. There are billions of galaxies in the universe each with billions of planets. We know about thousands of bad designs in the world, such as how bad the human eye is designed, or about parasites that eat sheep's eyes out. How can you truly look at the vastness of the universe and believe a God designed it for us? Its obvious the universe was not designed for humans as we are restricted to a small planet, and have been given no information by God about any of it. He couldn't even be bothered to tell the writers of the Bible that the Earth was round for Gods sake.

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16-11-2013, 07:24 PM (This post was last modified: 16-11-2013 07:45 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 04:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As a theists, I look for precision.

Really ?
Are you plural ?
Apparently discernment of "precision" is not your strong suit. Weeping

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16-11-2013, 07:44 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 01:57 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 06:36 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I don't think precision is a good metric for this. I look for evidence that there was some intelligent decision behind it. Baring that, I don't assume it was designed; complexity or precision don't necessarily lead to intelligence. There are too many naturally occurring complex things for me to think that it would be the case.

There is a big difference between complexity and precision. A complex thing is intricate. A precise thing is exact.

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16-11-2013, 08:25 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 06:18 PM)black_squirrel Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 09:51 AM)Cephalotus Wrote:  If something serves it's purpose/function with a minimum of add-ons, it's designed. If something has inconsistencies, contradictions or hindrances, it occurs naturally and evolved slowly.

I hope I used the right terminology for all that. Tongue

How do creationists tell that something is NOT designed?

If you ever figure that out, please let me in on the secret. They are fascinated with everything being designed.

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16-11-2013, 09:20 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
Hypothetically let's say you were watching a scene from the movie "Saw" in which people were attached to some machine that was mechanically going to cause them pain, suffering and perhaps even death.

[Image: the-hand-trap.jpg]

First off, can we distinguish items that occur naturally in nature, versus items that only occur as a product from a nature resource that has been altered into a shape and or form that doesn't occur naturally.

If we can't do that, then there is no point in going forward.
If you view everything as being designed, then there are no naturally occurring items in the universe and the designer should be held responsible for anyone suffering due to his or her designs, like in the movie "Saw"

If we can make a distinction between designed items and naturally occurring items, then we can move forward and discuss those items.

The woman is a naturally occurring biological life form.

Everything else in the picture, with the exception of air, bacteria, etc appears to have been designed and crafted from a naturally occurring resource into a particular shape. Each item has also been attached to other designed items to make a constructed item that doesn't occur naturally, but instead can only occur, as far as we know, as a product from a naturally aware and conscious being who has assembled these designed parts into a particular structure.

To answer your question, I would say that something can appear to be designed if it doesn't occur naturally in that particular shape or form..

Alternatively, as humans, we can chisel a piece of rock so that it resembles a naturally occurring stone to such a degree that you probably couldn't tell which one was formed by nature and which one was carved to resemble the other just by looking at it or by touch. But what you can do is run other tests in which you could find evidence of chiseling, evidence of a process enacted upon the stone that doesn't occur naturally.

Lastly let's look at artificially grown organs that are biological creations that don't occur naturally as an individual organism. You don't find hearts (by themselves) existing as a separate entity, but I think medical science is on it's way to making and or printing biological organs layer by layer.

If you want to assume a designer for the universe, then you must also judge the ethics and morality of that designer who has constructed things to cause people suffering, pain and death. If you can easily see the evil of the designer in "Saw", then you must also attribute the same evil nature to your universal designer.

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16-11-2013, 10:46 PM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 04:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As a theists, I look for precision.

"As a theistS"...?

Yup lotsa precision there.... Thumbsup

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17-11-2013, 03:39 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 04:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As a theists, I look for precision. The more precise a thing, the more likely that thing is to be designed(its never proof because random happenstance could result in something precise). What do atheists look for in determining whether or not something is designed?

The point has already been made I will make it more explicitly. You are exhibiting a confirmation bias. You should instead be seeking to falsify your hypothesis by looking for imprecision, superfluity, indirection and waste.

You will find both categories in nature (i.e. good "designs" and poor "designs") and that is inexplicable if everything is the product of intelligent design.
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17-11-2013, 04:15 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 10:46 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 04:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  As a theists, I look for precision.

"As a theistS"...?

Yup lotsa precision there.... Thumbsup

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Resistance is futile.

There are MANY theists who do not buy into ID.
Blowjob's premise is false
http://www.theistic-evolution.com/design.html

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