How do atheists identify something as designed?
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18-11-2013, 02:15 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(16-11-2013 09:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  First off, can we distinguish items that occur naturally in nature, versus items that only occur as a product from a nature resource that has been altered into a shape and or form that doesn't occur naturally.

To do that requires you to be familiar or have experience with designed objects which are very much like the object in question. If you visited some extra solar planet and found something which looked and functioned like a car, you would know(with a high degree of probability) it was designed because you are already familiar with designed vehicles.

What happens if you come across something which is completely unfamiliar to you. How do you tell it was designed?

(16-11-2013 09:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If we can't do that, then there is no point in going forward.

What do you do then? Assign a 50-50 chance that the object in question is designed?

(16-11-2013 09:20 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  To answer your question, I would say that something can appear to be designed if it doesn't occur naturally in that particular shape or form..

What prompted me to start this thread is some thoughts about the initial conditions of the universe. The universe started in a very precise, low entropy state....not something you would expect to occur naturally.
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18-11-2013, 02:27 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(17-11-2013 03:39 AM)Chippy Wrote:  The point has already been made I will make it more explicitly. You are exhibiting a confirmation bias. You should instead be seeking to falsify your hypothesis by looking for imprecision, superfluity, indirection and waste.

You will find both categories in nature (i.e. good "designs" and poor "designs") and that is inexplicable if everything is the product of intelligent design.

I don't think humans were explicitly designed by God. I think it was the universe which was designed.
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18-11-2013, 03:00 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
What do you think he designed the universe for?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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18-11-2013, 03:19 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(18-11-2013 03:00 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What do you think he designed the universe for?

I think the universe is designed to be emergent complex.
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18-11-2013, 03:50 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(18-11-2013 02:27 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I don't think humans were explicitly designed by God. I think it was the universe which was designed.
Interesting, can you walk me through your thoughts behind this?
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18-11-2013, 03:56 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(18-11-2013 03:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 03:00 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  What do you think he designed the universe for?

I think the universe is designed to be emergent complex.

That's very deistic, so don't let PJ see you type that or he'll revoke your new 'honorary' Born-Again status! Weeping

[Image: GrumpyCat_01.gif]
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18-11-2013, 04:10 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(18-11-2013 03:56 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 03:19 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I think the universe is designed to be emergent complex.

That's very deistic, so don't let PJ see you type that or he'll revoke your new 'honorary' Born-Again status! Weeping

My beliefs are very deistic....but I wouldn't say I am a deist.
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18-11-2013, 04:27 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
Was just going to the movies and come across a puddle of water, the water was perfectly level with the ground and fit the shape of hole in the ground so perfectly there is zero chance the water molecules just randomly assembled themselves into the shape of the hole. Conclusion is the puddle was intelligently designed.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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18-11-2013, 05:07 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(18-11-2013 04:27 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Was just going to the movies and come across a puddle of water, the water was perfectly level with the ground and fit the shape of hole in the ground so perfectly there is zero chance the water molecules just randomly assembled themselves into the shape of the hole. Conclusion is the puddle was intelligently designed.

You should give Douglas Adams the credit for the analogy otherwise it is plagiarism.

The problem with the analogy is this. A puddle can exist in any shaped crevice but emergent complexity can only exist in specific universes.
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18-11-2013, 05:25 AM
RE: How do atheists identify something as designed?
(18-11-2013 05:07 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(18-11-2013 04:27 AM)sporehux Wrote:  Was just going to the movies and come across a puddle of water, the water was perfectly level with the ground and fit the shape of hole in the ground so perfectly there is zero chance the water molecules just randomly assembled themselves into the shape of the hole. Conclusion is the puddle was intelligently designed.

You should give Douglas Adams the credit for the analogy otherwise it is plagiarism.

The problem with the analogy is this. A puddle can exist in any shaped crevice but emergent complexity can only exist in specific universes.

It was hard work to find an analogy homologous to the OP

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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