How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
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03-06-2015, 06:16 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 05:34 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 10:30 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  In the end, a computer simulation isn't necessary to demonstrate evolution. It serves no purpose in proving or disproving evolution. It's a pointless venture if that is the goal.

The analogy of the computer simulation was merely to compensate for our inability to watch billions of years transpire in front of us. And the question is primarily in regards to selection pressures.

If we transported bacteria to another planet in which it was able to survive, and given several billions years what would we expect the likely outcome to be? Would we more likely find a diverse array of life, that extends well beyond the domain of bacteria, perhaps find ourselves looking upon a variety of conscious creatures that extended from this early lineage?

I'd argue that this is unlikely to be the case, that what we'd more than likely see is an even more diverse array of bacteria. Bacterias can be some tough sons of bitches, able to survive without oxygen, the harsh conditions of space, in a variety of temperatures etc.. As a group, they display one of the widest variations of all organisms, and have been able to inhabit all sorts of environments. It's hard to conceive of any selection pressures that would likely lead to bacteria breaking off into lineages well beyond it's domain.
If we were able to computer model bacteria, in an infinite variety of environments, it's seemingly unknown what sort of ecological niche we'd have to create, for bacteria to extend beyond more resistant forms of bacteria.

You don't agree?

Selection pressures is basically a naturalist version of the God of the gaps, rather than particularly acknowledging the unknowns, awaiting further knowledge, we appeal to selection pressures, even when those supposed selection pressures are clearly unknown.

You'd argue whatever you believe, but you're wrong.

We already have bacteria on a planet that evolved and descended more complex forms...that planet is earth. And we can watch the billions of years play out in the rock record.

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03-06-2015, 06:17 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
We watch selection occur every day in the modern and in the fossil record. Look up the Lenski experiment if you want to see how E. coli respond in only a few decades to intraspecific competition for food.

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03-06-2015, 06:18 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Unless you know something about the thousands of experiments and observations and all of the data that has been accumulated over the last ~160 years that all of science is unaware of?

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03-06-2015, 06:20 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 06:16 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You'd argue whatever you believe, but you're wrong.

Please, tell me what part I am wrong about in regards to bacteria on another planet?

Do you think it's more likely that diversity of life found on earth will play out again on this hypothetical other planet in which we've implanted bacteria on? Or that it's more likely that we'll just find more diverse forms of bacteria?

I like the fact that you avoid the questions, and continually find ways to dodge it.
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03-06-2015, 06:21 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
And how would a computer simulation actually prove evolution? Because that implies that biological evolution could be derived solely from an observation from a simulation. But the simulation will require human programming of human observations of evolution and nature in order to be representative of reality. It's perhaps the most human-centered way to look at evolution, because it's the only one that would be completely human-dependent.

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03-06-2015, 06:22 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 06:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 06:16 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You'd argue whatever you believe, but you're wrong.

Please, tell me what part I am wrong about in regards to bacteria on another planet?

Do you think it's more likely that diversity of life found on earth will play out again on this hypothetical other planet in which we've implanted bacteria on? Or that it's more likely that we'll just find more diverse forms of bacteria?

I like the fact that you avoid the questions, and continually find ways to dodge it.

You. Are. A. Fucking. Dumbass.

We already have a planet where your hypothetical scenario has played out. On earth. And I've answered that stupid question more than once. But you keep asking it.

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03-06-2015, 06:24 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Unless you know more about evolution and geology than I do? Are you more qualified and more experienced with a greater degree of expertise in these fields than I? What are your credentials? AiG?

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03-06-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 06:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  We watch selection occur every day in the modern and in the fossil record. Look up the Lenski experiment if you want to see how E. coli respond in only a few decades to intraspecific competition for food.

No, we don't watch selection pressures occur, particulary not at the scale we're speaking of. We try and account for the diversity of life, by appealing to it all as product of selection pressures. But those actual selections pressures are for the most part unknown to us. You can't even conceive of what they would be, even in my thought experiments.

Our observations of selection pressures, are a relatively few examples, such as bacteria developing a resistance to antibiotics. Why do you not expect bacteria to continue this same exact observed behavior when implanted on another planet? That it just continues to develop a variety of different resistant strains, indefinitely?
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03-06-2015, 06:33 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 06:22 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 06:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Please, tell me what part I am wrong about in regards to bacteria on another planet?

Do you think it's more likely that diversity of life found on earth will play out again on this hypothetical other planet in which we've implanted bacteria on? Or that it's more likely that we'll just find more diverse forms of bacteria?

I like the fact that you avoid the questions, and continually find ways to dodge it.
And I've answered that stupid question more than once. But you keep asking it.

No, you provided a series of responses that would make any politician proud. You avoided even answering here.

I'll give you a simple yes or no option. Let's see what you chose:

Do you think it's more likely that diversity of life found on earth will play out again on this hypothetical other planet in which we've implanted bacteria, than just developing into more resistance forms of bacteria? Yes or No.
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03-06-2015, 06:34 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 06:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 06:17 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  We watch selection occur every day in the modern and in the fossil record. Look up the Lenski experiment if you want to see how E. coli respond in only a few decades to intraspecific competition for food.

No, we don't watch selection pressures occur, particulary not at the scale we're speaking of. We try and account for the diversity of life, by appealing to it all as product of selection pressures. But those actual selections pressures are for the most part unknown to us. You can't even conceive of what they would be, even in my thought experiments.

Our observations of selection pressures, are a relatively few examples, such as bacteria developing a resistance to antibiotics. Why do you not expect bacteria to continue this same exact observed behavior when implanted on another planet? That it just continues to develop a variety of different resistant strains, indefinitely?

I didn't realize you'd read up on all of the research? You must be an expert in all fields of biology and paleobiology to be able to outright reject evolution based on your clearly thorough analysis. Bowing I bow to your superior knowledge and intellect.

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