How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
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04-06-2015, 09:00 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 08:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 08:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You really don't get it. Nothing I have said contradicts what FT said, in fact, they are congruent. That is what you fail to understand, because your ignorance seems to manifest itself as supreme arrogance.

But by all means, I am sure you know more about all of these fields than myself and the experts in the fields of science you clearly know more than. Drinking Beverage

I'll make sure to send a copy of my dissertation to you for your approval and input.

So nothing you said contradicts FT, but something I said contradicted FT? Even though I acknowledge my overall agreement with him.

Does your professional life entail creating predicative models of what life on another planet would look life, or even what the chances of life existing on other planets would be? Are there any peer reviewed articles you can cite as a point of reference for the questions raised here? I'm guessing the answer is no, you cherubic looking jolly son of a bitch.

Your ignorance shields you from understanding the issues not only with your questions and hypothetical scenarios, but also how you interpret what others have said.

You think FT said something I didn't, but because you don't understand what is being said to you (actually understand not think you understand) you are unable to see the points being made or unable to comprehend them or both.

Predicative models for life on other planets? Yeah, it does. I look at how life has responded to selection pressures (including those abiotic ones like features of the planet itself) on a planet in order to better understand how life evolves, originates, and goes extinct in response to these selection pressures and abiotic changes. I study (are you ready for this?) the one planet we have found life on so far...Earth.

And watch yourself with the insults. I could fucking care less if you insult me, but don't insult my mother you stupid fucker.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-06-2015, 09:04 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 05:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Of course there would be a variety selection pressures.

Indeed.

(04-06-2015 05:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But I’m going to use a quote from Free Thought, in the post directly above your previous one, which pretty much sums up my view:

Quote: Forethought: You're right; there are no individual selection pressures which would force bacteria to stop being bacteria.
It's entirely possible that given enough time they will respond to their current pressures and trod down the path from which multicellular life arose, but I for one doubt it. It'd require a lot of time and probably some big shifts encouraging multi-cellularity beyond that of colonies. I doubt it because frankly they are good at what they do and I'm unsure if their fragility would allow for such changes...

And I disagree. We have exactly one experiment on this which has actually been done. You only need to look around you for the results. You are arguing that run a second time, it wouldn't happen. And that is something which you don't know to be the case. You asked for opinions, and you got some. They are based on sound considerations.


(04-06-2015 05:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And please if you don’t take the time to understand my points, and write responses that distort what I claimed, such as claiming that I believed no selection pressures would be exerted, don’t expect me to respond as if you didn’t do this.

You clearly don't understand the implications of your own point. Living fossils garner our fascination and amazement precisely because they haven't evolved in a few hundred million years. When you assert that bacteria wouldn't evolve into multicellular forms, you're asserting that no combination of selection pressures (because that is how they work, in concert) would be sufficient to drive that -- or you're asserting that mutations would slow down or stop. Those would be the required conditions for your assertion to be possible. So it is germane to ask you exactly how you think that might come about.

Remember, we're discussing "likelihood" here.

(04-06-2015 05:50 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:The problem with this point of yours is that evolution is not teleological.

Hum, I didn’t say it was teleological here. Claiming that given a particular niche an adaptation can be predictable, is not the same as claiming it’s teleological.

My comment about teleology was directed at this sentence, specifically:

Quote:Bacteria may have a countless number of mutations, yet seemingly only a handful, would save it from extinction imposed upon it by an antibiotic.

Nature would have no goal to "save" anything.

(03-06-2015 07:53 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  What mechanism do you propose that would hold a planet's ecology in what is virtual stasis? What would prevent weather from happening on a planet? Which orbit is more likely, a perfect circle or an ovoid? Which axial inclination is more likely -- a north-south axis perfectly parallel to the sun's north-south axis, or a tilted axis? And how do these answers affect the likelihood of selection pressures?

Answer these questions, or do not reply.

Do not dodge the point. You know that these factors would exert plenty of selection pressure, and that's not even considering the intraspecific selection pressures TBD has aptly mentioned.

What reason would anyone have to accept your claim when you haven't addressed these questions?
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04-06-2015, 09:18 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 09:04 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Nature would have no goal to "save" anything.

Did I say it had a goal? Again it was a predicative statement, not a teleological statement, or one implying that nature had a goal. Though I'd be curious how you can decipher if nature has a goal or not? How could the Weasel know that his being was preselected as the eventual outcome of that algorithm in which it arose from?

Quote:Do not dodge the point. You know that these factors would exert plenty of selection pressure, and that's not even considering the intraspecific selection pressures TBD has aptly mentioned.

Did I ever say there would only be a limited amount of selections pressures, rather than plenty of selection pressures? Bacteria has been aptly exposed to quite possibly every form of selection pressure under the sun right here on earth. And has adapted to every ecological niche thrown it’s way.

You keep associating me with claims that I never made, and then complaining about how I avoid responding to your strawmaning.
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04-06-2015, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 09:23 AM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
You do realize that evolution doesn't mean that the ancestral species has to go extinct, right?

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04-06-2015, 09:24 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(31-05-2015 10:43 PM)Worom Wrote:  I was sitting here at my desk and a thought occurred to me.

How do creationists explain the evolution of antibiotic resistant bacteria?

They pull out the bible and show us the detailed reference to such things. Wink

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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04-06-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 09:00 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You think FT said something I didn't, but because you don't understand what is being said to you (actually understand not think you understand) you are unable to see the points being made or unable to comprehend them or both.

You should perhaps look in the mirror for a minute. FT response was primarily to acknowledge agreement with me. "You're right; there are no individual selection pressures which would force bacteria to stop being bacteria...... I doubt it because frankly they are good at what they do and I'm unsure if their fragility would allow for such changes..."

If me and FT are acknowledging our agreement, and you're disagreeing with me, while acknowledging your agreement with him, what does this suggest? That the person who is not comprehending what the other is saying is you. Perhaps if you took the stick out of your ass, and eat a little humble pie, you might have figured that out already.

Quote:And watch yourself with the insults. I could fucking care less if you insult me, but don't insult my mother you stupid fucker.

Lighten up a little. You look like too nice of a guy to be a dick, or to not get the joshing.
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04-06-2015, 09:32 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 09:30 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 09:00 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You think FT said something I didn't, but because you don't understand what is being said to you (actually understand not think you understand) you are unable to see the points being made or unable to comprehend them or both.

You should perhaps look in the mirror for a minute. FT response was primarily to acknowledge agreement with me. "You're right; there are no individual selection pressures which would force bacteria to stop being bacteria...... I doubt it because frankly they are good at what they do and I'm unsure if their fragility would allow for such changes..."

If me and FT are acknowledging our agreement, and you're disagreeing with me, while acknowledging your agreement with him, what does this suggest? That the person who is not comprehending what the other is saying is you. Perhaps if you took the stick out of your ass, and eat a little humble pie, you might have figured that out already.

Quote:And watch yourself with the insults. I could fucking care less if you insult me, but don't insult my mother you stupid fucker.

Lighten up a little. You look like too nice of a guy to be a dick, or to not get the joshing.

Like I said, insult me all you want but don't bring my mother into this, dipshit.

Like I've said, more than once but you keep ignoring it, I've already told you the same thing FT did, but your inability to comprehend it is on YOU.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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04-06-2015, 09:35 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
The guy does not know your mother. Got that fact? Stop using your mother as an excuse to lose your cool and spit the dummy.

Grow up or be ignored.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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04-06-2015, 09:42 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 09:35 AM)Banjo Wrote:  The guy does not know your mother. Got that fact? Stop using your mother as an excuse to lose your cool and spit the dummy.

Grow up or be ignored.

Go fuck yourself. I don't care if I'm insulted but "son of a bitch" is not something I'm inclined to endure.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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04-06-2015, 09:43 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 09:32 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Like I've said, more than once but you keep ignoring it, I've already told you the same thing FT did, but your inability to comprehend it is on YOU.

Can you highlight a single point that I've made that is in disagreement with FT? It seems that your arguing with me for the sake of arguing with me, not because you have any actual disagreement.
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