How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
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04-06-2015, 10:10 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Now I am confused. Currently under side effects of heavy chemotherapy. I did not think I was quoting you???

Obviously the side effects are overwhelming. Better for me to leave this thread alone. Please excuse any confusion I have shown.


(04-06-2015 09:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 09:47 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Funny as hell. You are unworthy of time.

The "go fuck yourself" may be strong, but I'm not inclined to tolerate ignorant fuckers calling me a "son of a bitch".

I don't particularly care if you find me unworthy of your time, I didn't realize it was valuable.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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04-06-2015, 10:14 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(03-06-2015 05:08 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(03-06-2015 03:53 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  We hypothesize them, sure. But rather than then say, "Well, that's that, let's move on" (which is what the god of the gaps fallacy sees theists doing), scientists keep on looking for various selection pressures in order to better understand the process.

No, we hold a steadfast faith that these unknowns, that our extensive diversity of life, consciousness, our reasoning abilities, are all the end products, of selections pressures. We don’t particularly lack a belief in this of course, awaiting to acquire more insight as to what those selections pressures were, but believe it to be a product of selection pressures with all our hearts. “Selection pressures” are our handy dandy gap fillers. It’s why someone like Beardedguy imagines that if we transported bacteria to another planet and give it several billion years, selections pressures would more than likely produce a diversity of life equivalent to our own, rather than us merely looking at just more diverse and resilient forms of bacteria.

No and no. Facepalm

Mutations give rise to changes, selection pressures (i.e. the environment) dicate which can survive and thrive. Diversity is the likely result.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-06-2015, 10:16 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
I never realized how much discussion my original question would bring up, however it has in volumes helped to answer the original question.

I originally started the question out of a position of ignorance, and asked because I wanted to learn and alleviate my ignorance, which evolved into a debate between The Bearded Dude who speaks from a position of authority and Tomasia who speaks from a position of willful ignorance.

Unlike those who seek truth and ask hard questions and examine evidence, Tomasia and theists(may be an overgeneralization here) speak as if they already have the answer and ignore any evidence presented to them that will allow them to emerge from their place of ignorance which is really quite sad in my opinion to be so set in one's beliefs that they can't be changed even when staring down a massive body of evidence.

I wish I could contribute to the discussion more actively, but I chose not to because I can't speak with any authority on the matter as I don't have the knowledge to do so. It would have been irresponsible of me to try and make claims on something I don't really understand yet or try to debate those that clearly have far more knowledge on the topic than I do. What Tomasia should have done is to study and ask relevant questions on the matter on topics that he doesn't know or understand, and if it's pointed out that he didn't understand something then the proper response should be. What portion didn't I understand correctly and may I have another explanation on the topic to help me understand.

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04-06-2015, 10:18 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 10:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Now I am confused. Currently under side effects of heavy chemotherapy. I did not think I was quoting you???

Obviously the side effects are overwhelming. Better for me to leave this thread alone. Please excuse any confusion I have shown.


(04-06-2015 09:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The "go fuck yourself" may be strong, but I'm not inclined to tolerate ignorant fuckers calling me a "son of a bitch".

I don't particularly care if you find me unworthy of your time, I didn't realize it was valuable.

You quoted me in your original post on this thread about tomasia not knowing my mother. I'm as confused as you are.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-06-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 07:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Unless you can show that your views, are held by the consensus of experts here, then your option 1 is mute. I don't think you're representative here. In fact I think a variety of experts, like Jerry Coyne will likely side with me here more so than you.

*moot

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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04-06-2015, 10:22 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Confusion will be my epitath. Smile

Sorry for any discomfort I caused. Indeed, you have my respect.

Thanks for your patience.


(04-06-2015 10:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 10:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Now I am confused. Currently under side effects of heavy chemotherapy. I did not think I was quoting you???

Obviously the side effects are overwhelming. Better for me to leave this thread alone. Please excuse any confusion I have shown.

You quoted me in your original post on this thread about tomasia not knowing my mother. I'm as confused as you are.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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04-06-2015, 10:23 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 10:22 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Confusion will be my epitath. Smile

Sorry for any discomfort I caused. Indeed, you have my respect.

Thanks for your patience.


(04-06-2015 10:18 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You quoted me in your original post on this thread about tomasia not knowing my mother. I'm as confused as you are.

Don't worry. Hope the chemo ends soon

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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04-06-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Another 18 months. Smile

Keeps me off the streets.

Anyway I have proven I have nothing of worth to add to this thread. Please watch me go away so as not to derail it further. Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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04-06-2015, 10:33 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 09:51 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Your wording was unclear. "Save" implies intent.

Only for those bent on seeing intent in it.

Quote:You see, for intent to happen, there must be a mind. For mind to occur in a material universe, there must be a material substrate for it. Where is nature's mind? This question of yours is simply you being obstreperous.

So basically you’re saying that we can’t infer intent unless we know who or what the mind behind it is? We can’t presume intent without knowing this, or we’d be violating occam’s razor? (this is a side question unrelated to whatever i may have said previously here)

Quote:The question you're dodging is "why do you think those selection pressures, which you now admit exist, would not actually pressure the microbe to evolve?”

I didn’t “now” admit they exist. In fact my use of bacteria was predicated on the fact that they’ve been exposed to an infinite variety of selection pressures.

A bacteria developing a resistance to an antibiotic is evolving. My issue here is not that bacteria will not evolve (it will), but the confidence in which some believe it will evolve in some linear fashion over billions of years, extending well beyond the domain of bacteria. It’s possible of course, if we take earth as an example of this, but is this extensive diversification into a variety of domains more likely than just a plethora of diverse and resistant forms of bacteria?

We don’t know what the conditions would have to be to make these leaps and bounds. If we had the capacity to computer model these conditions we wouldn’t even know where to begin, to conceptualize the actual constraints needed. Yet we know from direct observations, and the facts that bacteria has adapted to pretty much every ecological niche imaginable, that bacteria has been able to survive, and reproduce, without having to extend outside its domain.

If Occam’s razor is your tool of choice here, perhaps you can see why the view that we’d just be looking at diverse and more resistant forms of bacteria, is not without warrant.
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04-06-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Applying disinfectant to a counter top would be one example of environmental change for bacterium living on the surface. You never see any labels claiming - "Kills 100% of bacteria". Why is that?
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