How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
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04-06-2015, 02:28 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 02:32 PM by Chas.)
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 02:11 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 11:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  The mechanisms that explain evolution do not require intent to function. Evolution works just fine without intent.

Neither does the "weasel program", once the algorithm is set to run, it's requires no further tinkering to arrive at "Methinks it is like a weasel". Once the algorithm of evolution is set to run, faced with a particular selection pressure, it can produce an eye over and over again, 40 or so times to be exact.

What do you think needed to be "set to run"? The algorithm is simply the inevitable result of imperfect replication (mutation) and differential reproductive success (selection). It is entirely mechanical and needed no setting up.

Quote:
Quote:It's not clear which is more likely, but the longer the time period, the more likely is diversification.

Sure, the longer the time period the greater the likelihood of developing conscious rational creatures like ourselves. The longer we allow the Weasel Program to go on, the greater the likelihood that "Methinks it is like a weasel" would be spelled out. Though in the Weasel Program, given a long enough period of time the sentence is inevitable, don't know if it's similarly inevitable that bacteria would extend beyond it's domain, or that conscious life will eventually emerge, given sufficient time.

The weasel example is not an example of evolution; quite the contrary. It is a simple demonstration of the power of cumulative selection without assuming any of the features of actual evolution.

There is no inevitability as to the specific products of evolution - not intelligence, not thumbs, not eyes, not anything.

Quote:
Quote:We have a very good idea of the conditions on earth through time. What is it that's mysterious?

That's not the unknown, the unknowns are the particular ecological niches.

What do you think "ecological niche" means?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-06-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 10:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I didn’t “now” admit they exist. In fact my use of bacteria was predicated on the fact that they’ve been exposed to an infinite variety of selection pressures.

Really? Have you forgotten these posts?

(02-06-2015 08:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So where would we even begin to imagine a sort of "selection pressure" that would require bacteria to develop beyond bacteria?

(01-06-2015 10:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are selection pressures inevitable?

(01-06-2015 10:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are selection pressures, that bacteria needing to develop feet, or a nose very probable?

Clearly you're trying to have it both ways. You're backpedalling some ignorant claims, while trying to avoid owning your mistakes. You've admitted that they exist and are trying to pretend that your radical skepticism of them earlier in this thread wasn't posted.

You're being dishonest at this point, and unless you start owning up to this shit, this conversation is over.

And -- the next time we interact, I'll remember your dishonesty here, and apportion credibility accordingly.
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04-06-2015, 02:40 PM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 02:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And we also know that they have evolved outside their "domain", assuming that by "domain" you mean original niche. "Domain" certainly wasn't used in my Biology or Phys Anth classes. I suppose it's the same sort of category label as "kind"?

You took a biology classes, and Phys anth classes and never heard of the Three-domain system?

Or Domain Bacteria?

Perhaps this is your opportunity to say oops?
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04-06-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 02:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 02:22 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  And we also know that they have evolved outside their "domain", assuming that by "domain" you mean original niche. "Domain" certainly wasn't used in my Biology or Phys Anth classes. I suppose it's the same sort of category label as "kind"?

You took a biology classes, and Phys anth classes and never heard of the Three-domain system?

Or Domain Bacteria?

Perhaps this is your opportunity to say oops?

Nah, the use of 'domain' is recent. Thumper is not young enough to have had that terminology in school.

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04-06-2015, 02:47 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 02:51 PM by Tomasia.)
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(04-06-2015 02:35 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-06-2015 10:33 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I didn’t “now” admit they exist. In fact my use of bacteria was predicated on the fact that they’ve been exposed to an infinite variety of selection pressures.

Really? Have you forgotten these posts?

(02-06-2015 08:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  So where would we even begin to imagine a sort of "selection pressure" that would require bacteria to develop beyond bacteria?

(01-06-2015 10:23 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are selection pressures inevitable?

(01-06-2015 10:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Are selection pressures, that bacteria needing to develop feet, or a nose very probable?

Clearly you're trying to have it both ways. You're backpedalling some ignorant claims, while trying to avoid owning your mistakes. You've admitted that they exist and are trying to pretend that your radical skepticism of them earlier in this thread wasn't posted.

You're being dishonest at this point, and unless you start owning up to this shit, this conversation is over.

And -- the next time we interact, I'll remember your dishonesty here, and apportion credibility accordingly.

I'm not even sure why I should try and explain to you the difference between questions and claims. Or your inability to distinguish between questions about particular types of selection pressures, and selection pressures in general.

If anyone here is being dishonest here it's you.

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04-06-2015, 03:18 PM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
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