How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
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02-06-2015, 07:57 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Also, I don't know what a simple environment is. Any and every planet we have ever come across has some dynamic aspect of it. Night and day. Or volcanism. An atmosphere. Etc, Etc.

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02-06-2015, 08:08 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 07:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, I don't know what a simple environment is. Any and every planet we have ever come across has some dynamic aspect of it. Night and day. Or volcanism. An atmosphere. Etc, Etc.

Any why do you believe these dynamic aspects on planets other than our own that we have come across, would make it inevitable that the bacteria we placed on it, would evolve beyond bacteria over billions of years?

Why do you not believe that we'd likely just be looking at diverse forms of bacteria after such a length of time?
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02-06-2015, 08:13 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 08:08 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 07:57 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, I don't know what a simple environment is. Any and every planet we have ever come across has some dynamic aspect of it. Night and day. Or volcanism. An atmosphere. Etc, Etc.

Any why do you believe these dynamic aspects on planets other than our own that we have come across, would make it inevitable that the bacteria we placed on it, would evolve beyond bacteria over billions of years?

Why do you not believe that we'd likely just be looking at diverse forms of bacteria after such a length of time?

At what point did I say they'd have evolved enough in a few billion years to no longer classify as bacteria?

Also, classification is a human system placed arbitrarily on life. The differences between single-celled bacteria, archea, and eukarya, are defined by humans. So, after billions of years of evolution, they'd be different and almost certainly different enough to be a new species.

But on a planet with similar selection pressures as the early Earth (the first few billion years), there is no reason to think they wouldn't follow some sort of similar pattern (convergent evolution).

For instance, Earth didn't always have an atmosphere conducive to life, but life made one. Our oceans were not always so hospitable (especially for organisms that weren't thermophiles or chemotrophs or photoautotrophs), but life made it more hospitable.

Life has even modified the landscape, and enhanced the weathering of rocks, and lubricated plate tectonics, etc.

You are still using a straw man version of evolution

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02-06-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Life didn't come with the Earth. The Earth was probably devoid of life for at least the first billion and a half years or so. Then around 3.0 Ga, we have the first tentative evidence for life in the chemical record of rocks. These first organisms didn't change much for a few billion years.


This is a little crude but gets the point across. The earliest prokaryotes were in a sort of stasis until they continued to modify the Earth, creating new niches and environments and selection pressures.
[Image: animal_timeline.jpg]

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02-06-2015, 08:19 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
This is better in some respects.
[Image: Timeline.jpeg?1393022721]

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02-06-2015, 08:26 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 08:13 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But on a planet with similar selection pressures as the early Earth (the first few billion years), there is no reason to think they wouldn't follow some sort of similar pattern (convergent evolution).

But we don't even know what these "selection pressures" are. What sort of selections pressures would bacteria need over a billions of years to branch out to lineages with eyes, or noses, of feet? Rather than bacteria just developing another form of resistance, like anti-biotic resistance? Some bacterias can survive some extremely harsh conditions. So where would we even begin to imagine a sort of "selection pressure" that would require bacteria to develop beyond bacteria?
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02-06-2015, 08:27 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 08:26 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 08:13 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  But on a planet with similar selection pressures as the early Earth (the first few billion years), there is no reason to think they wouldn't follow some sort of similar pattern (convergent evolution).

But we don't even know what these "selection pressures" are. What sort of selections pressures would bacteria need over a billions of years to branch out to lineages with eyes, or noses, of feet? Rather than bacteria just developing another form of resistance, like anti-biotic resistance? Some bacterias can survive some extremely harsh conditions. So where would we even begin to imagine a sort of "selection pressure" that would require bacteria to develop beyond bacteria?

Competition for resources.

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02-06-2015, 08:36 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Gee Beardy, you know gobs of stuff. Blink

What stands out to me most in this disscussion is that life itself, effects it's environment. Those alterations in turn, may adversely effect or enhance the environment for another life form and further pressures effect further adaptations.

Flux. It is what it is.

I dig it. Shy

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02-06-2015, 08:50 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(01-06-2015 01:21 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(01-06-2015 12:44 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  The unspoken assumption in your scenario is that the new planet's climate and topology would remain unchanged for billions of years. That doesn't strike me as terribly likely.

Yes, but those changes would have to produce particular ecological niches, without those particular niches, there no particular reason to believe that we'd be looking at anything other than different varieties of bacteria.

And what makes you think they wouldn't? Geological changes almost always have climatological implications.

At this point, you're busy bailing water out of a leaky comment, when you should simply have the 'nads to say "I was wrong" and be done with it. You'll learn more, and annoy less, with such an approach, as opposed to this studious obtuseness you're adopting.
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02-06-2015, 08:50 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 08:36 AM)kim Wrote:  Gee Beardy, you know gobs of stuff. Blink

What stands out to me most in this disscussion is that life itself, effects it's environment. Those alterations in turn, may adversely effect or enhance the environment for another life form and further pressures effect further adaptations.

Flux. It is what it is.

I dig it. Shy

Life finds a way

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