How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-06-2015, 09:08 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:03 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  The important point is to not be afraid of your ignorance but to embrace it as a challenge.

The alternative, of course, is to take the fundamentalist's approach and embrace it as a lifestyle.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like unfogged's post
02-06-2015, 09:14 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 07:27 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And an environment that's not as "complex", won't produce as many niches and interactions, there by leading to less diversity. There's no particular reason to believe that if we were to transport a bacteria on to a random planet, that given a few billions years, that we just wouldn't be looking at a variety of different bacterias.

You're still ignoring the fact that over three billion years, the geology will likely change.

You have to realize that when you solicit opinions only to ignore them in favor of repeating your own point, you reveal your posting to be agenda-driven.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thumpalumpacus's post
02-06-2015, 09:16 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:07 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 09:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But do you know what this particular "completion" was? So that we could try and recreate it for my hypothetical computer stimulation? So that my hypothetical computer stimulated bacteria can at some point branch off into other lineages that develop eyes?

The answer is no right?

Why do you want to compare it to a computer simulation? Why the hell does that matter?

Because I want to compare it.

But, I'll take it that your answer to my question, is a no.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2015, 09:19 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:16 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 09:07 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Why do you want to compare it to a computer simulation? Why the hell does that matter?

Because I want to compare it.

But, I'll take it that your answer to my question, is a no.

Compare it to what? I still don't understand what you think you're simulating.

We have the fossils. We have the genetics. We see the pattern. We see the mechanisms. No need to simulate it. You can model the factors and mechanisms we observe, and that's been done.

For instance, people have modeled branching patterns for maximizing sunlight capture and wouldn't you know it, we replicate all the observed patterns seen in nature plus some we haven't observed. Dawkins talks about this in one of his books.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes TheBeardedDude's post
02-06-2015, 09:19 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:14 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You're still ignoring the fact that over three billion years, the geology will likely change.

You have to realize that when you solicit opinions only to ignore them in favor of repeating your own point, you reveal your posting to be agenda-driven.

I'm not ignoring that geology will not change. But the question is what sort of geological changes, ecological niches would be needed for the bacteria to develop beyond being a bacteria, to one day break off into lineages that form eyes, etc... rather than just more resistant forms of bacteria, able to weather harsher conditions?

Hence why I appealed to a computer stimulation here, do you know what sort of niche would be needed for my hypothetical stimulation? The answer is of course, no, of course you don't. Nobody does, for the most part.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2015, 09:20 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
Do you think you'd model it better than the hundreds of scientists who've been doing it for decades?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2015, 09:21 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 08:53 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 08:27 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Competition for resources.

Imagine for a minute that we were able to computer simulate bacteria. And we could speed up time in these simulations, like the rate of mutations etc... Are we even able to even imagine what sort of "niches" would be needed here for the bacteria to develop well beyond bacteria? To break off into lineages that would develop eyes, or feet, or even conscious creatures?

The answer is, no. We believe all this is a result of selection pressures, but what those selection pressures actually were, we are for the most part in the dark about. In reference to the bacteria it's much easier to imagine more and more resistant forms of bacteria developing, then ones breaking off into lineages that develop eyes, etc...

You seem unaware of the fact that Richard Dawkins has done a simple computerized model of evolution ... forty years ago. He writes about it in this book.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post
02-06-2015, 09:21 AM
How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(02-06-2015 09:14 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You're still ignoring the fact that over three billion years, the geology will likely change.

You have to realize that when you solicit opinions only to ignore them in favor of repeating your own point, you reveal your posting to be agenda-driven.

I'm not ignoring that geology will not change. But the question is what sort of geological changes, ecological niches would be needed for the bacteria to develop beyond being a bacteria, to one day break off into lineages that form eyes, etc... rather than just more resistant forms of bacteria, able to weather harsher conditions?

Hence why I appealed to a computer stimulation here, do you know what sort of niche would be needed for my hypothetical stimulation? The answer is of course, no, of course you don't. Nobody does.

Competition for resources.

"Nobody does." No, you don't know so you assume no one else does. Which is complete ignorant bullshit.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2015, 09:27 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:19 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm not ignoring that geology will not change. But the question is what sort of geological changes, ecological niches would be needed for the bacteria to develop beyond being a bacteria, to one day break off into lineages that form eyes, etc... rather than just more resistant forms of bacteria, able to weather harsher conditions?

Hence why I appealed to a computer stimulation here, do you know what sort of niche would be needed for my hypothetical stimulation? The answer is of course, no, of course you don't. Nobody does, for the most part.

Nobody knows exactly what cause will have what evolutionary effect specifically. But arguing that bacteria will likely remain bacteria over three billion years ignores the fact that in such timescales, the formation of new niches is inevitable. And such niches will exert evolutionary pressures. As TBD has already pointed out to you a couple of times, exotic life will almost certainly evolve in entirely different directions than it has on Earth, because there are many different solutions to the problems competition (both interspecies and intraspecies) brings about.

So no one knows exactly what niche would be needed to bring about your hypothetical 3 -billion-years-without-change. But your hypothesis is vapid because you insist on ignoring the fact that over three billion years change will have occurred. Do you realize how much energy stasis requires for maintenance?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: How do creationists explain antibiotic resistant "super bugs"
(02-06-2015 09:21 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You seem unaware of the fact that Richard Dawkins has done a simple computerized model of evolution ... forty years ago. He writes about it in this book.

You mean the weasel program?

Perhaps you failed to recognize that this program was dependent on choosing a prespecified target sequence, it's entirely teleological. Requiring a programer to specify what the end target would be.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: