How do our christians here regard apostates?
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10-12-2014, 12:45 PM
Re: RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(10-12-2014 09:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In my head, I thought it would be interesting, or even nice to have a child who became an atheists. I've always liked the idea of an intimate interplay between belief and unbelief, the sort that is non-existent in popular debates, or in forum cultures, but the sort that only has a possibly to exist between close friends, or family, and even more so between a loving father and a son. So we'll probably have some long talks.
Not what I was expecting but interesting nonetheless. I was thinking there would be anger, bitterness, betrayal etc..

When I read this bit, it almost seemed like you were talking about a pet that won't behave itself and you want to correct it rather than a human being. I'm sure you didn't intend that but it's just how it read.

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10-12-2014, 06:45 PM
RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(10-12-2014 12:45 PM)TubbyTubby Wrote:  When I read this bit, it almost seemed like you were talking about a pet that won't behave itself and you want to correct it rather than a human being. I'm sure you didn't intend that but it's just how it read.

Not at all. As I said earlier I was an unbeliever for a good chunk of my adult life, and it wasn't because I was bad, and in need of correction. The interplay between belief and unbelief was a deeply personal one, it involved an intimacy possibly only with myself.

And I was always curious to know how that sort of inner dialogue, would play out with another person. It would have to be a person with whom that sort of openess and love exist.

And it easy to imagine that closeness existing with my child. It's not that I desire my child to be an atheist, but that I've wanted to have that discussion with someone, to see what comes about, and I think that's only possible with someone as close to me as myself.
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11-12-2014, 05:54 PM
RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(10-12-2014 12:45 PM)TubbyTubby Wrote:  
(10-12-2014 09:01 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  In my head, I thought it would be interesting, or even nice to have a child who became an atheists. I've always liked the idea of an intimate interplay between belief and unbelief, the sort that is non-existent in popular debates, or in forum cultures, but the sort that only has a possibly to exist between close friends, or family, and even more so between a loving father and a son. So we'll probably have some long talks.
Not what I was expecting but interesting nonetheless. I was thinking there would be anger, bitterness, betrayal etc..

When I read this bit, it almost seemed like you were talking about a pet that won't behave itself and you want to correct it rather than a human being. I'm sure you didn't intend that but it's just how it read.

Given the current active theists I don't think your going to get the response you were expecting. My answers are more or less the same as tomasia's. For me it's the fact that in highschool my three friends were a more or less atheist Lutheran, a practical atheist Catholic and a guy who ended up being an antitheist to some degree. However since I really got into my faith, I haven't had a close friend fall away, so I don't really know my reaction. With that being said I do live in Toronto so I have no problem with people of differering faiths.

In terms of my child it would also depend on how much they lose when they lose their faith. I do believe that the moral rules in Catholicism are based on natural law and as such not arbitrary rules but ones that are derived from natural reason. As such I would still expect them to behave in a Catholic manner. However I feel that if they were to lose their faith it would cause enormous strain on our relationship since my entire life is ordered around my faith. Fun fact: I started smoking because I was catholic. In any case I would probably prefer an atheist to a Protestant since at least most atheist believe in reason.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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11-12-2014, 07:07 PM
RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(11-12-2014 05:54 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  However I feel that if they were to lose their faith it would cause enormous strain on our relationship since my entire life is ordered around my faith.

How old are your kids? Is it too late to give them up for adoption so that someone who would actually love them could be their parents?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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11-12-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(11-12-2014 07:07 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 05:54 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  However I feel that if they were to lose their faith it would cause enormous strain on our relationship since my entire life is ordered around my faith.

How old are your kids? Is it too late to give them up for adoption so that someone who would actually love them could be their parents?

My bad, I'm still in uni and have no kids. And who said I wouldn't love them. I just said the relationship would be strained since the entire point of my life is to get to heaven. As such every action I do is theoretically ordered towards that whether it is going to church, providing for my family, or smoking a pipe. Part of that is loving and caring for ones family. However imagine being the only atheist in that household. I may love them but the relationship will still be strained on both ends.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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11-12-2014, 07:26 PM
RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(11-12-2014 07:15 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 07:07 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  How old are your kids? Is it too late to give them up for adoption so that someone who would actually love them could be their parents?

My bad, I'm still in uni and have no kids. And who said I wouldn't love them. I just said the relationship would be strained since the entire point of my life is to get to heaven. As such every action I do is theoretically ordered towards that whether it is going to church, providing for my family, or smoking a pipe. Part of that is loving and caring for ones family. However imagine being the only atheist in that household. I may love them but the relationship will still be strained on both ends.

Whew. That's good, because you've got a lot of growing up to do before you have kids. I'm an atheist, and i hope that my kids will share my skepticism towards religion. However if one of them becomes a fundie, it won't affect my relationship one bit other than what our conversations will be about. See how your religion will poison your life? That's not a good thing at all.
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11-12-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(10-12-2014 07:12 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-12-2014 07:10 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Luckily, I got better.

Turned you into a Newt did she?

It was a pun. Tongue
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12-12-2014, 02:28 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2014 02:34 AM by TubbyTubby.)
Re: RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(11-12-2014 05:54 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Given the current active theists I don't think your going to get the response you were expecting. My answers are more or less the same as tomasia's.

I guess you are probably right, it's not that I was expecting someone to come out and say 'I would disown the heathen atheist and banish them from my house' type of thing, but certainly more along those lines than the cosy friendly replies so far.

It's just that most of the stories from de-converts here form a similar pattern; agressive childhood indoctrination - questioning - confess loss of belief - rejection from theist peers. Perhaps you are an exeption to the rule.

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12-12-2014, 02:34 AM
Re: RE: How do our christians here regard apostates?
(11-12-2014 07:15 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  I may love them but the relationship will still be strained on both ends.
I recommend to hang fire on the procreation thing for a while then if you can't accept completely your childs choice of belief.

Mine have been left to their own conclusions about gods, fairies and pixies.

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