How do theists explain races?
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19-09-2010, 07:02 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Hey, Unbeliever.

Race is a fiction of science like Eugenics is a fiction of science. It stems from foolish interpretations of scientific thought and is fictional. It's origins are in the Enlightenment, not the classical period.
Quote:Today, many anthropologists consider race, with respect to how individuals in society interact with each other, to be a cultural construct independent of biological or genetic variation. Having arisen as an ideology about differences between peoples, race is something to be analyzed apart from biological or genetic considerations.[11] While race as a concept is older—Marco Polo in his travels, for example, describes the Persian race[12]—the history of race reveals that 19th and 20th century concepts of its meaning and modern sensibilities about how society views race date back only to the 17th century...

Anthropologists also point out that genomic analysis has shown that racial distinctions are "not genetically discrete, are not reliably measured, and are not scientifically meaningful."[15] Most variations in human genes, in fact, pre-date the time of the migration of Homo sapiens sapiens out of Africa, leading genetic researchers to concluded that the "possibility that human history has been characterized by genetically relatively homogeneous groups ('races'), distinguished by major biological differences, is not consistent with genetic evidence."[16][11]...

Among the very first American colonists, African entrepreneurs who had arrived as laborers engaged in society and commerce on an equal footing, with equal rights, as Europeans — and with similar attitudes.[11] The Enlightenment brought with it, in the 18th century, the synthesis of humans as unequals, with blacks placed as the lowest of the races in the Great Chain of Being.[19] Tragically,[16] those characteristics most closely associated with classifying races: skin color, hair color and texture, and facial characteristics—while evolutionarily important—are among the most superficial of human genetic traits.[16]
-SOURCE

Race is a meaningless classification. Some populations share minute morphological differences because of genetic drift. But the idea that they're somehow significantly different is a fiction.

Quote:No one said they were. What are you talking about?
Quote:But still, a lion and a tiger are about the same as two races of human, but they can't make fertile young as humans are pretty much all compatible (though I heard that native australians have a hard time with interracial mating?)

You were saying?

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Matt
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19-09-2010, 07:08 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
So we just ignore physical and mental differences between races?

This seems like BBC science.

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19-09-2010, 07:22 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Sorry. Mental differences?

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Matt
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19-09-2010, 08:19 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
I don't get the mental differences comments either. Otherwise, I follow you point and (and this will shock you) I agree. Humans are all one race. There are biological differences between peoples from different areas but the differences tend to be superficial.

From what I recall from college biology (20 or so years ago) some differences are in different types of muscle development and there are some also some differences in body chemistry, which accounts for why certain diseases seem to exist in only certain races. For example, blacks will sometimes get sickle cell anemia and non-blacks are not. Jews will get Tay-Sachs disease and non-Jews will not. I suspect that as we see more inter-marriage between the "races" you will probably see these types of diseases drift over their current race boarders.

But, other than those small differences, all humans have the same structure, cranial capacity, etc. At the end of the day we are all just people.

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19-09-2010, 11:57 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
What I mean by mental differences is that there are differences in brain chemical responses in different races and there is also quite a large variance in the size of the pre-frontal cortex.

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19-09-2010, 08:51 PM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Hey, Bnw.

It doesn't shock me. You're an intelligent person. You have every capacity to realise when I'm right Big Grin

Sickle cell is a perfect example of genetic drift. People who lived in sub-Saharan Africa had to deal with the malaria parasite. Thus their environment was different than those where the parasite did not live (like, say, in Sweden). Thus the selection pressures were different. Thus different traits were selected. They were also geographically separated from other groups. Different selection pressures + geographical separation --> genetic drift. The sickle cell allele is recessive. When someone inherits a recessive sickle cell allele, they get an adaptive natural immunity to the malaria parasite. Thus it was selected in that group in that area. When someone inherits a double recessive sickle cell allele, they can develop a maladaptive disease, sickle cell anemia (but one that does not kill before the age of reproduction, allowing it to persist). Maladaption in some is the cost of the adaptation that lets most people survive in malaria areas. It's not something that a Swede has to deal with. In Sweden, it's not ever adaptive. It's only maladaptive. Thus it's never selected.

Thus sickle cell anemia is just the result of genetic drift. Any human can carry the allele. It just wasn't selected in non-malaria regions. Having it isn't a property of being black. If a sub-Saharan carrier had a child with, say, a Swede, there is a 0% chance that the offspring will have sickle cell anemia because the allele is recessive. If that child wound up with the allele and then had a child with another carrier, there is a chance that that child could get it (if it wound up with the double recessive). So absolutely, gene flow can counteract the effect of the genetic drift within two generations. I don't actually know anything about Tay-Sachs disease but I imagine the same rules apply.

All the other superficial differences, long arms in hot areas to help shed heat, light skin in northern regions to help absorb the most sunlight, blah, blah, blah, are simply the result of genetic drift. Genetic drift is what CAN lead to speciation, but it has never done so with Homo sapiens sapiens. Not only that, but all of these traits can easily "flow" between so called races if they procreate because they're human traits and we're all humans. That's called gene flow. Genetic variation in different, previously separated groups + those groups fucking --> gene flow.

Hey, Cetaceaphile.

Abandon races? Pretty much, yeah. It's debunked. Why keep it?

Also, what's this pre-frontal cortex business?

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Matt
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19-09-2010, 10:03 PM
RE: How do theists explain races?
I'm not sure, Ghost, this all seems like BBC science.

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19-09-2010, 11:29 PM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Hey, Cetaceaphile.

I have two questions. What is BBC science? In what way is this possibly BBC science?

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Matt
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20-09-2010, 02:34 AM
 
RE: How do theists explain races?
(18-09-2010 03:47 PM)No J. Wrote:  The genetic difference that creates races is so miniscule that people are just as likely to be a close genetic match to someone of a different race as they would be to someone in their own ethnic group.

This statement doesn't answer your question. I placed it here as a reference for people reading future posts. The reason is to accent the rediculousness of the ideas of some religions.
Bingo!! Racism is meaningless idiocy, so it has a place in some religions, naturally.
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20-09-2010, 03:20 AM
 
RE: How do theists explain races?
Me mum told me some bible story about that.

Apparently when god got pissed about man building that giant tower he divided people into races, and gave each race their own language. Just to fuck with them so there couldn't be world unity so the people couldn't do amazing things.
He wanted helpless people who struggle to survive on their own, rather then unity.

sure sounds like a fine fellow to me!
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