How do theists explain races?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-09-2010, 02:54 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
(22-09-2010 02:40 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  Hi Cetaceaphile,

Full disclosure, I am a theist. In fact I am a Bible-believing Christian. I am fairly certain the biblical explanation for races is that prior to the Tower of Babel in Genesis 11, all people lived in the same geographic area. After God confused people's languages people became nomadic and scattered to all corners of the earth.

Why would god bother to create different languages to stop the building of the tower of Babel? We have a deep space probe that is over half a million miles away and it hasn't spotted heaven yet. Are you telling me that the ancient Babalonions could have built a tower that was more that half a million miles high?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 02:55 AM
 
RE: How do theists explain races?
Who said anything about 'extreme liberalism'? Cetaceaphile, your mostly cryptic posts can be pretty obscure.

Barley, good to have you back, although biblical mythology is not worth a lot in the discussion.

We humans seem quite determined, collectively, to magnify the significance of our ethnic and cultural differences, to the point where we try to categorize everyone into racial "boxes" - but given the long and diverse history of the human race, our individual genetic heritage likely includes members from nearly all the 'racial' categories, barring populations that have been genetically isolated for a long time, like the aboriginal Australians before the English arrived. Race as a concept is an emphasis on minor external variations that ignores how all of us are fundamentally the same. Under the thin veneer of culture, and the flotsam of trivial variations among separate groups, we're all just human beings.
(23-09-2010 02:54 AM)No J. Wrote:  Why would god bother to create different languages to stop the building of the tower of Babel? We have a deep space probe that is over half a million miles away and it hasn't spotted heaven yet. Are you telling me that the ancient Babalonions could have built a tower that was more that half a million miles high?

Correction ... according to NASA

Quote:As of August 2009, Voyager 1 was over 16.5 terameters (16.5 × 10^12 meters, or 16.5 × 10^9 km, 110.7 AU, or 10.2 billion miles) from the Sun

It has yet to encounter the heliopause, to my knowledge, to say nothing of heaven!!
Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 05:02 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
It's just that denying evidence that races exist (look out the window if you live in a city) and saying anyone who disagrees is a bigot is extremist liberalism.

And sorry I'm a little vague on things, but I do think that lots of things are as simple as they look.

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 05:15 AM
 
RE: How do theists explain races?
(23-09-2010 05:02 AM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  It's just that denying evidence that races exist (look out the window if you live in a city) and saying anyone who disagrees is a bigot is extremist liberalism.

And sorry I'm a little vague on things, but I do think that lots of things are as simple as they look.
I think there's good scientific evidence to suggest that what you call "races" are based almost exclusively on minor genetic variations. And that many people who, by virtue of one or more of those minor variations, are lumped into one racial box or another, but have genetic heritages that include ancestors from many "races". Virtually all of us are the result of genetic mingling of the "races" (miscegenation) - we're essentially all "mongrels", and there are very few "purebreds" (with the exception I noted earlier of the odd long-term, genetically-isolated populations). The fact that there are external differences among us is what we seem determined to focus on, whereas the genetics of our species imply that the notion of races is bogus.

If there were sentient broccoli plants, I'd guess they'd also be obsessively concerned with minor genetic variations among themselves, whereas we would still see all of them simply as broccoli.

Simplicity can be in the eye of the beholder. What seems obvious to you may be obscure to at least some of us.
Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 05:30 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
I still see it as you wouldn't call a bulldog a greyhound. Doesn't mean they're not equal, but one breed runs faster, one breed is more physically resilient, just different environments making different characteristics. The same is seen in humans and it does seem to segregate into large groups.
To me denying the existence of different races is denying EG; that most chinese people have the same characteristics or that celtic people were mainly tall and red haired.

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 06:43 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Hey, Cetaceaphile.

For real, what the heck is BBC science?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 07:50 AM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Ghost - BBC is the "British Broadcasting Company" and he's making an observation on how they treat reporting on science. Seriously, this is really not that complicated.

Cetaceaphile - a bulldog and a greyhound are different breeds but ultimately they are just dogs. People are all one race. We have some external differences between us but saying blacks and whites are a different race is no more valid than saying people with blue eyes and brown eyes are a different race. It's not political correctness or liberalism, it's basic genetics and biology.

Perhaps if we all focused a little more on our many similarities instead of our few minor differences the world would be a better place.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 03:15 PM
RE: How do theists explain races?
So should we replace the word "race" with "breed" or just ignore the subject in an effort for perceived community cohesion?

I think the only people who are offended or even greatly affected by acknowledgment of genetic groups within our species are uncomfortable with their own race or with others.

I hope that if we advance as far as star trek people will be able to feel proud of their group without it being "racist" to other groups.

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 03:40 PM
 
RE: How do theists explain races?
Quote:Barley, good to have you back, although biblical mythology is not worth a lot in the discussion.

2buckchuck, thanks for the kind words.

I just wanted to comment that you are free to dismiss the worth of the contents of my answer. But do remember that the subject of this thread was "How do theists explain races?". As a theist, I think I gave the answer the poster was looking for. Now, if the question was to prove how the different races started, I couldn't do that and your reaction to my answer would be warranted (I guess Wink)

Respectfully,

Barley
Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2010, 04:31 PM
RE: How do theists explain races?
Actually this did get pretty derailed innit 0-0

[Image: sigone_zps207cf92c.png]

Leonard Nimoy
1931-2015
Live long and prosper.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: