How do they know?
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09-07-2014, 10:44 AM
How do they know?
We have all heard religious people tell us all kinds of details about God, heaven, hell, etc. God is infinite, God is love, God is perfect, God cannot contradict his own nature, God is omnipotent, heaven is bliss, in heaven you sit at the right hand of God, certain faithful will have the beatific vision while others of different faiths will not, in heaven there is no more sin or pain or sadness, blah, blah, blah. At least much of what they say is not in the Bible yet they claim to have all manner of details.

So where does it all come from? This is not a literal question because the answer undoubtedly is the religious leaders made/make it up. But what do religions say about where they get these details? I have never really heard this answer.

It doesn't seem like Jesus (when he was supposedly on Earth) would be the answer for Christians or the details would have been recorded in the New Testament (at least one would think). Otherwise, few have spoken with God, fewer have seen God (if any), and no one has been to heaven or hell. So where do the details supposedly come from? Consider

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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09-07-2014, 10:46 AM
RE: How do they know?
Humans trying to fill in the gaps creating and updating a popular mythology of heaven and hell that's been around long before monotheism.

That's my answer for thinking people.

For anyone else "Cuz the book says it".
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09-07-2014, 11:00 AM
RE: How do they know?
The bible is like a POW, if you torture it enough, you can get it to say anything.

Then all you have to do is get people to believe your interpretation.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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09-07-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: How do they know?
(09-07-2014 11:00 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  The bible is like a POW, if you torture it enough, you can get it to say anything.

Then all you have to do is get people to believe your interpretation.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
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09-07-2014, 11:18 AM
RE: How do they know?
"They" are carefully taught. The Bible is a compilation of storytelling. Watch 'The God Who Wasn't There" and read every Joseph Campbell book. This is about man's need to create deity myths to try to explain exactly what you ask.
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09-07-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: How do they know?
I've heard many, many variations on what Heaven actually is. You would think that if it really existed that Christians wouldn't have all these different versions of it that they love to talk about as some motivator to join their side. Then again, there are a countless number of things that Christians spout that completely vary from one group to the next.

For a long time, Christianity believed in predestination. Your fate had already been determined before you were even born, and whatever you did on Earth, no matter how good or bad, was irrelevant.

Christians always claim that science can't be relied on because it changes when new things are discovered. Not only is this point stupid (remain in ignorance instead of finding truth), but completely hypocritical. Christians have changed a whole bunch of shit in their religion throughout history.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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09-07-2014, 11:26 AM
Where's the senior meeting?
Hi. I'm new here. This should be on the Intro thread but I lost it. I'm looking for the older group meeting down the hall? I'm 59. I'm a language teacher and former journalist. I'm not here to judge or convert or subvert. I was led this way this morning. Thanks for your help.
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09-07-2014, 11:29 AM
RE: How do they know?
(09-07-2014 10:44 AM)Impulse Wrote:  We have all heard religious people tell us all kinds of details about God, heaven, hell, etc. God is infinite, God is love, God is perfect, God cannot contradict his own nature, God is omnipotent, heaven is bliss, in heaven you sit at the right hand of God, certain faithful will have the beatific vision while others of different faiths will not, in heaven there is no more sin or pain or sadness, blah, blah, blah. At least much of what they say is not in the Bible yet they claim to have all manner of details.

So where does it all come from? This is not a literal question because the answer undoubtedly is the religious leaders made/make it up. But what do religions say about where they get these details? I have never really heard this answer.

It doesn't seem like Jesus (when he was supposedly on Earth) would be the answer for Christians or the details would have been recorded in the New Testament (at least one would think). Otherwise, few have spoken with God, fewer have seen God (if any), and no one has been to heaven or hell. So where do the details supposedly come from? Consider

Easy. They simply imagine it. Ask any religious person how you can distinguish what they claim is true from something they may have imagined and then sit back and watch. They can't answer because they literally did imagine it. In order to "see" any of the things that are claimed in the bible, the believer has no alternative but to use his imagination since talking snakes, burning bushes and water turning into wine can't be seen by looking outward at reality.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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09-07-2014, 12:01 PM
RE: How do they know?
I appreciate all the replies so far. Most have said "the Bible" and maybe that's all there is to it. However, I imagine if I approached for example a priest, minister, or rabbi with this question, they would have a different answer. Maybe oral tradition or prophesy or spiritual revelation? I'm not sure what their answer(s) would be, but that's what I'm looking for.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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09-07-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: How do they know?
(09-07-2014 11:26 AM)Maribeth Jones Wrote:  Hi. I'm new here. This should be on the Intro thread but I lost it. I'm looking for the older group meeting down the hall? I'm 59. I'm a language teacher and former journalist. I'm not here to judge or convert or subvert. I was led this way this morning. Thanks for your help.
Welcome. Smile

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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