How do we convert a Theist?
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28-02-2012, 11:30 AM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(28-02-2012 10:41 AM)Egor Wrote:  Converting me is a whole lot easier than you might think. All you have to have is one positive argument (that works) that God does not exist. And I don't mean a you-can't-prove-he-exists argument, or a god-isn't-needed argument, I mean a logical argument for his non-existence. I can do that for the Christian concept of God, and that's exactly why I'm not a Christian. My concept of God is this: God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

Have at it.

We already have!
The world clearly operates as if there is no god.
A god operated or induced world as you have preached it, would HAVE to be different.

Done.
But you wear god glasses and cannot even consider the other possibility.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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28-02-2012, 11:41 AM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 11:44 AM by Starcrash.)
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(27-02-2012 08:36 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Look, dude. We'll leave it up to a democratic vote. If more people want me to leave, I'll leave. No questions asked.

It annoys me, too, that you're so often singled out. Why would anyone even want to convert you? It's not like we have a lot of dissenting voices in this forum as it is.

----------------------------------------------

As a former theist, I believe that therapists have it right when they say that people have to come to their own conclusions. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink... and if you force him to the water, he's likely to resist.

I think the better sell comes from convincing theists (as well as atheists!) to learn how to reason. Everyone should be familiar with how logic works, what fallacies exist, and how their own thinking can be led by subliminal hints, bias, community, conformity, and a host of other factors that have nothing to do with whether a person's ideas are "objectively correct". Doubt is the first step to change, and a person who is unreasonable (and proud of it) is a person who will never change.

Once a person understands what evidence is, faults in evidence, how evidence can be colored, etc., he or she can actually make good use of the evidence at hand --- and the evidence is in our favor. Getting rid of faith --- and by faith, I mean "certainty without evidence" --- is the best way to convert a believer. It's how I became an atheist, and I think it's widely applicable. Plus, such an education in skepticism has the side benefit of protecting people from con artists... it's win/win!

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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28-02-2012, 12:40 PM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
How do you convert a theist? How do we convert an atheist? Personally I'm not interested in converting an atheist. But what I am interested in is if an atheist is going to quote and scrutinize the bible then they should have the basic concepts and knowledge of how to read and study the bible. that should hold for engaging in studying any book of history.
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28-02-2012, 12:58 PM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(28-02-2012 12:40 PM)freedom Wrote:  How do you convert a theist? How do we convert an atheist? Personally I'm not interested in converting an atheist. But what I am interested in is if an atheist is going to quote and scrutinize the bible then they should have the basic concepts and knowledge of how to read and study the bible. that should hold for engaging in studying any book of history.

And those basic concepts and knowledge, judging by your single other post, would be a thorough knowledge of the Hebrew language? How thorough is your knowledge?

I don't need stuff all basic concepts and knowledge to discount a book about an invisible being who wants me to act like a shit, nor do I have a problem attacking such belief. It's when it gets down to "you must act this way that we prescribe or you're evil" that I draw the line, equally for theists or atheists.

Apply the golden rule - that's all.
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28-02-2012, 10:10 PM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(28-02-2012 10:41 AM)Egor Wrote:  Converting me is a whole lot easier than you might think. ... Have at it.

Not interested.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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29-02-2012, 03:21 AM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(28-02-2012 10:41 AM)Egor Wrote:  Converting me is a whole lot easier than you might think. All you have to have is one positive argument (that works) that God does not exist. And I don't mean a you-can't-prove-he-exists argument, or a god-isn't-needed argument, I mean a logical argument for his non-existence. I can do that for the Christian concept of God, and that's exactly why I'm not a Christian. My concept of God is this: God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

Have at it.

How about this for a logical argument?

Why would a god create us to interact and communicate with each other a certain way (i.e. sight to see people sound to hear voice touch as if we were to shake someones hand). Yet god doesn't communicate with his creation according to the way he made them to communicate. Instead he apparently thought it would be a good idea to copy false religions tactic of 'using man to write his holy word.'

You can't ask someone to prove that god does not exist any more justly than I asking you to prove that the FSM doesn't exist. Thats not what Atheism is about. It's about believing what we DO KNOW and not making up answers for things we don't.

We don't have proof. But the we have the next best thing....Logic.

Forget Jesus. Stars died so you could live.-Lawrence Krauss

For god loved the world so much he tortured his only begotten son, gave him a 3 day nap only to wake up in ultimate awesomeness and called it a sacrifice.
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29-02-2012, 03:26 AM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(29-02-2012 03:21 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  We don't have proof. But the we have the next best thing....Logic.

Don't forget swearwords and guilt-free fucking Big Grin
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29-02-2012, 05:42 AM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 05:44 AM by houseofcantor.)
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(27-02-2012 12:53 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  All ideas are welcome.
How can we convince the hard core theist that they are wrong?
What will convince a KC type?

I'm thinking there's a blindfold and a car battery involved... Angel
(27-02-2012 08:36 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Look, dude. We'll leave it up to a democratic vote. If more people want me to leave, I'll leave. No questions asked.

This ain't a democracy and you ain't going nowhere. Once you register you can never leave... muah-ha-ha-ha... Angel

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29-02-2012, 08:29 AM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(28-02-2012 10:41 AM)Egor Wrote:  Converting me is a whole lot easier than you might think. All you have to have is one positive argument (that works) that God does not exist. And I don't mean a you-can't-prove-he-exists argument, or a god-isn't-needed argument, I mean a logical argument for his non-existence. I can do that for the Christian concept of God, and that's exactly why I'm not a Christian. My concept of God is this: God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness.

Have at it.

Ok, how's this... may favourite bit of sophistry...

"Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (book one of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series), p 50

So if ever anyone claims they do not need FAITH because they KNOW god exists... he doesn't.
Or to put it another way.... if all the faithful died tomorrow, so would god!

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29-02-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: How do we convert a Theist?
(29-02-2012 03:26 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 03:21 AM)Atheist Chiefs fan! Wrote:  We don't have proof. But the we have the next best thing....Logic.

Don't forget swearwords and guilt-free fucking Big Grin

Well, only SOME of us get the guilt-free fucking. Confused

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
~Izel
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