How do we feel about Antifa?
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02-09-2017, 12:08 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(26-08-2017 02:21 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  This topic was touched on here and there in the "Censoring white supremacy" thread but I wanted to isolate it and focus on just Antifa. What is it, exactly, and do we approve.

(sic)?

IDK, I believe in love, but hate is sure the fuck easier. Undecided

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02-09-2017, 12:08 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 11:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'll stand with anybody against fascism, until the people I'm standing with start looking for a fight.

I know right? It's like PETA (the name is people for the ethical treatment of animals) who can't say they don't want animals treated ethically? On the surface they sound great, but underneath they are just crazy.

It's like we used to know who the good guys and bad guys are...Today, the bad guys take these "nice" sounding names and deliver their batshit crazy message, add a bunch of people who are already prone to violence and get a thrill from being part of a group and breaking things...

This is exactly how freedom of speech begins to die. I don't know if they'll see that they were part of the fall because they're too busy being in the thick of things. Time might change them but it'll be too late for the rest of us. The damage will be already done.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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02-09-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 01:27 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 08:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  They tell me that "Black bloc tactics are used by "antifascist action" or "antifa" protesters. Here's what that means." but never told me what that means. Is it the sum total of the article? 'cause there's nothing particularly novel about their tactics that warrants them getting credit for them. Now I gotta go look up "black bloc tactics", fuck you WaPo. ... google google google ...

And that the Germans came up with it as a response to indications of a potential neo-Nazi, shall we say societal "tolerance", is no surprise.
Am i condensing this correctly down to "black block tactics were invented by Germans as a response to indications of a potential neo-Nazi, shall we say societal "tolerance"?

Then you are wrong, very wrong.

Black block tatctics were invented to counter police tactics, who were getting tougher on protesters as protests in general were becoming more and more violent and uncontrollable in the 70s and 80s. The goal was to be uniform in appearance and so be unidentifiable when committing crimes, yes i say crimes. I will elaborate in my next post, referring to Whiskey.

I see. So you guys have bad cops too. That makes me worried, actually. So these bad hombres are using tactics developed to counter escalating police tactics used on protesters, against other protesters. Shit ain't gonna end well. How do it turn out for you? The bit about if everyone's committing property damage and they all look the same, who do you arrest?, is pretty clever.

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02-09-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 12:08 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 11:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'll stand with anybody against fascism, until the people I'm standing with start looking for a fight.

I know right?

But I'd love to die with meaning. Imma no hate ho.

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02-09-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 12:12 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 01:27 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Am i condensing this correctly down to "black block tactics were invented by Germans as a response to indications of a potential neo-Nazi, shall we say societal "tolerance"?

Then you are wrong, very wrong.

Black block tatctics were invented to counter police tactics, who were getting tougher on protesters as protests in general were becoming more and more violent and uncontrollable in the 70s and 80s. The goal was to be uniform in appearance and so be unidentifiable when committing crimes, yes i say crimes. I will elaborate in my next post, referring to Whiskey.

I see. So you guys have bad cops too. That makes me worried, actually. So these bad hombres are using tactics developed to counter escalating police tactics used on protesters, against other protesters. Shit ain't gonna end well. How do it turn out for you? The bit about if everyone's committing property damage and they all look the same, who do you arrest?, is pretty clever.
Its still disputed here if the cops were bad, or how bad they were. Firstoff we have a completely different view on police and state than in the US. In the US the state is a rather annoying necessity who must not be allowed to exert too much power. Here the state (and police forces) are more seen as a "protector", someone whos task is to protect us. So we are giving police forces more benefit of doubt concerning questions like police brutality. It certainly wasnt the individual policeman, but rather the leaders who had no proper concepts on how to react to mass protests including organised violence. We had mass protests against vietnam too back in the 60s, but afaik violence wasnt organised and rather a matter of escalation than intention.

How did it all turn out? Well, we havent reached an end yet. The violent masked thugs are still here (as you could see from my pics) and they are still doing lots of damage. The police has learned a lot of lessons and turns up in massive numbers, is using latest technology to try and ID the criminals. It also has helped a lot that the peaceful protesters distanced themselves wherever possible from the masked criminals, rather cooperating with police. I think this is a good idea and sends out the right message to everyone. The peaceful protesters try to stay away from the violent groups, making it easier for police to get them under control.

You better look up the details for yourself. I may be biased or ill informed after all.

In the end all i can say is what Whiskey and Mom alread pointed out: First it must be clear to eveyone that these kind of people have nothing to do with a particlar political ideology necessarily, that this is not a political issue but a sociological one (where do these people come from, how and why do they have such a low tolerance for voilence? etc.). Then your society (and media of course) have to agree that this kind of violence is not tolerable, not at all. Once these (actually very few) people are isolated pushed into a corner by society, they will *starve* to death, beause they feed on voilence and hate etc. Now that i am tlaking about it, this worked very well for the RAF. In the beginnig they had lots of sympathisers, but once everybody realized that they were just mad (politically motivated tho) killers, it was *game over*. They all got killed or arrested (with the first ones ebing released now after 20y in jail). Yeah, black and white, left and right must agree that this violence is not acceptable.

How am i so sure that this is not a "left vs right" issue. Well the so called "black blocks" we actually developed by groups that celled temselves "Autonome" (autonomous). As the name suggests they werent bound to a specific ideology or political party. They originated in the left, but quickly turned into "professional (violent) protesters", *protesting* against various socio-ecological efforts, sometimes being welcome by the organisers of said protests, sometimes not, but they always were very violent.

Below the english wiki about them. The german version ads the following information: The german secret service of internal affairs estimates this group to have about 6000 members.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomism..._and_1980s
Quote: In Germany, Autonome was used during the late 1970s to depict the most radical part of the political left.These individuals participated in practically all actions of the social movements at the time, especially in demonstrations against nuclear energy plants (Brokdorf 1981, Wackersdorf 1986) and in actions against the construction of airport runways (Frankfurt 1976–86). The defense of squats against the police such as in Hamburg's Hafenstraße was also a major "task" for the "autonome" movement. The Dutch anarchist Autonomen movement from the 1960s also concentrated on squatting.

Tactics of the "Autonome" were usually militant, including the construction of barricades or throwing stones or molotov cocktails at the police. During their most powerful times in the early 1980s, on at least one occasion the police had to take flight.

Because of their outfit (heavy black clothing, ski masks, helmets), the "Autonome" were dubbed der schwarze Block by the German media, and in these tactics were similar to modern black blocs. In 1989, laws regarding demonstrations in Germany were changed, prohibiting the use of so-called "passive weaponry" such as helmets or padding and covering your face.

Today, the "autonome" scene in Germany is greatly reduced and concentrates mainly on anti-fascist actions, ecology, solidarity with refugees, and feminism. There are larger and more militant groups still in operation, such as in Switzerland or Italy.

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02-09-2017, 05:45 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 12:01 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 09:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If you think that the Fascists and the Antifascists are equally bad that shows your only problem with Fascists is they are a little rowdy.
Not sure who this is directed at but I'll take a stab none the less.


This narrative is just silly. AntiFa can call itself anti-fascist till it's blue in the face, but I'll judge them based on their actions and based on their actions they are in NO WAY an anti-fascist organization now. They are not just targeting "fascists" they are targeting anyone they don't like even if it's for stupid reasons. Attacking free speech, vandalizing property, assaulting journos, showing up to peaceful rallies that have NOTHING TO DO with fascism armed with prohibited weapons, attacking police, assaulting other counter protesters on their own political side because they don't want the thuggery at their protest, and repeatedly instigating violence and inciting riots.

These are not the fruits of people wanting to fight against fascism, these are the fruits of people who want to use political violence to stifle ALL opposing views.


I have a great deal many issues with white supremacists, neo-nazis, and people espousing fascistic ideals but at the end of the day words are words and violence is violence and I absolutely refuse to give any motherfucker a free pass because their violence is aimed at what many on the left seem to view as "the right people".

AntiFa is as anti-fascist as Ken Hamm is an atheist.

It honestly was not directed at anyone as I have not been following the thread. I did see some people decide I meant them, guilty conscience maybe?

Neo-Nazi and White Supremacy speech is inherently violent as they promote genocide. Shouting them down and out numbering them 100 or more to 1 is the only way to counter them.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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02-09-2017, 06:56 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 10:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 09:34 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It's one thing to rush to judgment, it's another to be glacially slow. If you want to speed up your learning curve, go to an antifa gathering wearing a Make America Great Again hat.
So to solve a curiosity, be a deliberate troll?

I'm sorry but I think all the perspectives your giving support to in these posts pushes prejudice (not saying you're being so) but what you're saying to so is telling people to be so... as if that's not the problem.

You're supporting group judgement and labeling as if it's not basically the point against what has caused the recent outlash at them accusing and harassing people rashly.

You may intend your criticism as constructive (or you just don't agree with my opinion and it's a polite way of saying "Jerry stfu!"- totally understandable!) so thanks but not interested. For me this is a "Is the Sun hot? Discuss" type debate, and I'm not going to pussy-foot around and worry about whether I "labeled" or supported "group judgement" or "pushed prejudice" or whatever. Take your time on this topic if you see a ton of grey area. I'll be on the side of "threatening and carrying out violence against the free excercise of speech" = bad.

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02-09-2017, 07:33 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 09:34 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 06:50 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Really? I think the opposite because rushed uninformed moral claims is pretty weak on a judgement scale; that kinda leads to the whole foolish in/out grouping that these protests exist because.

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It's one thing to rush to judgment, it's another to be glacially slow. If you want to speed up your learning curve, go to an antifa gathering wearing a Make America Great Again hat.

I'm game. Bring it bitches.

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02-09-2017, 07:48 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
"Make America Girly Again"

I can get on board with that.

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02-09-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 07:48 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  "Make America Girly Again"

I can get on board with that.

I'll fucking introduce estrogens into the water supply and turn all of these assholes into little fucking girls crying in the corner for their mommies sucking on their thumb looking at their little tiny weewees and undescended testicles. Need to warn the womenfolk first. Shit'll give them breast cancer. If all of the women you see are all drinking bottled water, you'll know the first wave has been released.

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