How do we feel about Antifa?
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13-09-2017, 05:00 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
Wow, Chas, Trainwreck and Girly talking. What's the year again? I had to double check.

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[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-09-2017, 05:04 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(13-09-2017 03:35 PM)Dr H Wrote:  So long as they don't overdo it with the anchovies, it's OK.

Wait ... what was the question?

One anchovy is overdoing it.
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14-09-2017, 12:23 AM (This post was last modified: 14-09-2017 01:18 AM by Sushisnake.)
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(26-08-2017 02:38 PM)TSG Wrote:  "Hey, guys! Let's show everyone we hate fascism by dressing up in black masks, waving ideological flags and threatening people with violence!"

Yep. You can imagine the different little antifa groups in locker rooms somewhere with their leader psyching them up for the street fight ahead.

Bet I know how they spend their weekends:

https://youtu.be/sdOEsVQKMuc

Not a fan.

The irony is they could be a great force for good. They used to be. Historically, antifa and socialists acted as marshals during protest marches. They were ready for violence from fascists and they didn’t shrink from dishing it back, but first and foremost, they were marshals, they kept the march moving, so it couldn't get bogged down in one on one street fighting and harm innocent bystanders, they put themselves between peaceful protestors and violence, they kept peaceful protestors safe

https://louisproyect.org/2017/08/15/anti...venturism/
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14-09-2017, 04:08 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(13-09-2017 05:00 PM)Dom Wrote:  Wow, Chas, Trainwreck and Girly talking. What's the year again? I had to double check.

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Trainwreck? That tells me all I need to know.

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17-09-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
Here is my major problem with all the tut-tuting going on about Anti-fa, nearly every thing they have been accused of has later turned out to be either done by the other side or completely fabricated. The White Nationalist side has Murdered 1 women openly at these protests Anti-Fa has not done really anything.


(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-09-2017, 10:57 AM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2017 11:07 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(17-09-2017 09:34 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Here is my major problem with all the tut-tuting going on about Anti-fa, nearly every thing they have been accused of has later turned out to be either done by the other side or completely fabricated. The White Nationalist side has Murdered 1 women openly at these protests Anti-Fa has not done really anything.


The way I see it, they're kinda analogous to GamerGate (and Anonymous). I know what that sounds like, just hear me out.

Anti-Fa groups are often very secretive, to prevent infiltration of legitimate groups by subversives. That has them donning a cloak of anonymity, and the problem with anonymity is, you cannot control admission to the group. Just as there was no such thing as a 'fake' GamerGater, as it's decentralized swarm mentality meant that there could be no gate keepers; all you had to do to be a GamerGater was call yourself as such. Either everything is in, or everything is out. Likewise anybody can show up to a protest in a black hoody, jeans, and a face mask and call themselves 'Anti-Fa'; even if they themselves are just a group of thugs looking for convenient cover for their violence.

From what I've heard and read, Anti-Fascists organizations have a rather long and sordid history across Europe and it's broad political spectrum. They nearly always spring up as a response to fascism, and once the fascist threat has subsided, the Anti-Fa groups and their members will likewise dissolve back into their normal mundane lives.

So I don't have a problem with Anti-Fa, in fact on principal I agree with them; I just have a problem with people who use violence. The problem is, in their need for anonymity (out and open Anti-Fa groups and members are the targets of fascist death threats in Europe), they give up their gate keepers as well. Anybody can don the garb and call themselves 'Anti-Fa', but let's be real here, not all of them are anti-fascist about it.

However unlike the bullshit at the core of GamerGate ('ethics in games journalism' as a cover to attack women, queerfolk, and their allies), Anti-Fa has a important reason to exist; it is a response to a legitimate threat.

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17-09-2017, 03:04 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
ShortfatOtaku made a very good video response to the whole murder of a woman.
https://youtu.be/kqn3P5gN7po
On one hand the guy was right wing, so it is possible that he was intentionally driving into the crowd to do as much damage as possible, and the woman's death was just an accident.
not something he had planned on but not something he regrets either.
One the other hand as pointed out in the video it´s also possible that instead of first degree manslaughter, we are talking about second degree.
And that the actions of the driver was of one attacked by the crowd of people and trying to get away from them, he accidentally rammed into the crowd.

The videos of the event support both versions, and a good attorney might be able to argue the chase of second degree manslaughter, which only gives a minimum of two years and a maximum of 4 years as opposed to a minimum of 4 years.

As for GamerGate it WAS about ethics in Games Journalism, and most people like Sargon of Akkad said from the very beginning "Don´t harras these people, by sending them death threats and other such thing, it only gives them ammunition to use against you."
"instead expose their bullshit to the world expose their tactics and backhand dealings to the world, and demand ethics in games journalism.

As for antifa themselves see them as no better then the KKK and other such extreme right groups, they are on the opposite side of the coin, but it´s the same coin none the less.
When we see their riots in Berkeley and other such places plus their actions i fully support the decision of labeling them a a terrorist organisation.
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17-09-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
And you have video of them killing people who disagree, right?
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17-09-2017, 05:58 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(17-09-2017 09:34 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Here is my major problem with all the tut-tuting going on about Anti-fa, nearly every thing they have been accused of has later turned out to be either done by the other side or completely fabricated. The White Nationalist side has Murdered 1 women openly at these protests Anti-Fa has not done really anything.


What do you mean by the title of your linked article? What Antifa group turns out to be right wingers?
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17-09-2017, 06:14 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(17-09-2017 10:57 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  So I don't have a problem with Anti-Fa, in fact on principal I agree with them; I just have a problem with people who use violence. The problem is, in their need for anonymity (out and open Anti-Fa groups and members are the targets of fascist death threats in Europe), they give up their gate keepers as well. Anybody can don the garb and call themselves 'Anti-Fa', but let's be real here, not all of them are anti-fascist about it.

This is a great point and well said, it speaks to the difficulty of public protest in general, whether in support of left or right (unless the right is waving swastikas, then it's kinda clear where they stand). You're at the mercy of the biggest asshole in your protest, because what's going to make the evening news, the 500 peaceful protesters or the guy hitting other people with his "Nuke the whales" sign? But is it you that gets to define antifa? You seem to be defining antifa: peaceful protesters who wear black masks because they don't want to get infiltrated. So by definition, if someone shows up wearing a black mask and is crazy violent, well, what, they aren't really antifa? I understand what you're saying and it may be that a majority of antifa, maybe a majority of the leadership of antifa (which may be nebulous and hard to define) don't want to use violence, but sometimes things are what they are, I think there's a substantial enough chunk of these antifa who are perfectly willing and wanting to strike first, violently, and would probably think anyone naive for thinking they shouldn't.
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