How do we feel about Antifa?
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02-09-2017, 03:21 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(01-09-2017 11:55 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  This shit is depressing. You have politicians outright lying and trying to shut down peoples right to free speech, peaceful rally attendees with their hands above their heads being assaulted without provocation or just cause even when they cancel the "offending" rally, multiple journos are being targeted (even when they are on the same side), people are defying the police prohibition of weapons and facing no consequences, and the rule of law seems entirely absent.

This is Berkeley. This is what they do. They've been doing it for at least the last 50 years. They're like the canary in the coal mine for social unrest about to go shit sideways.

#sigh
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02-09-2017, 03:57 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 03:21 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 11:55 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  This shit is depressing. You have politicians outright lying and trying to shut down peoples right to free speech, peaceful rally attendees with their hands above their heads being assaulted without provocation or just cause even when they cancel the "offending" rally, multiple journos are being targeted (even when they are on the same side), people are defying the police prohibition of weapons and facing no consequences, and the rule of law seems entirely absent.

This is Berkeley. This is what they do. They've been doing it for at least the last 50 years. They're like the canary in the coal mine for social unrest about to go shit sideways.

Add two more decades to that Girly, Berkeley had women protesting longer skirts and padded hips as early as 1947. Big Grin

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Berkeley: A History of Disobedience - In Pictures @ The Guardian

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02-09-2017, 06:50 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(01-09-2017 09:03 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 08:18 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  I don't know enough about them to make a conclusion.

It shouldn't take long to figure it out unless your moral compass is really fucked up. We'll wait.
Really? I think the opposite because rushed uninformed moral claims is pretty weak on a judgement scale; that kinda leads to the whole foolish in/out grouping that these protests exist because.

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02-09-2017, 07:12 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
I still say that they are nothing but gangs. The lot of them, communists, anarchists, Nazis, KKK, white supremacists and what have you.

If they show up armed in the streets spoiling for a fight, they are nothing but gangs. If they show up un-armed, holding speeches or carrying signs, they are protesters.

I draw the line at bringing weapons and desiring violence. Those are the people trying to squash free speech, not the ones practicing it.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-09-2017, 07:21 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 07:28 AM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(01-09-2017 09:03 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 08:18 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  I don't know enough about them to make a conclusion.

It shouldn't take long to figure it out unless your moral compass is really fucked up. We'll wait.

I've seen one video of Antifas attacking a Trump supporter. I'm not going to paint them all as violent based on one video. That's called being reasonable. For that matter I do not trust the testimony of those who say "the left is violent" because they are victims of confirmation bias. Also try not jumping to conclusions next time someone is merely being skeptical of blanket statements.

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02-09-2017, 08:25 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
By the way, I'm a non-violent individual, and I refuse to condone offensive violence for any reason.

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02-09-2017, 08:28 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(01-09-2017 11:55 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  What he fuck happened to the old Liberal mindset of "I disagree with what you say but I'll defend to the death for your right to say it"? This shit is depressing.

The left has abandoned the principle of free speech, and has sought to prohibit speech they label hate speech. I have hope, though, that voices on the left are starting to recognize the error of that decision to abandon free speech. Signs of hope include:

--President Obama early on when some of the crazy violence started showing up on campus while he was president spoke out in favor of free speech. While I oppose his liberal economic policies, I give him a lot of credit for doing this.

--Bernie Sanders has been good on the topic of free speech as well, being one of the earliest to condemn the use of violence to oppose detestable speech.

--The press has finally started turning on Antifa. The NY Times and the Washington Post are now writing articles critical of their violence, and the case you pointed out about journalists reporting being attacked by the violent Antifa groups have struck a cord. As you pointed out, too often voices on the left were ignoring or giving tacit approval.

--Prominent politicians in leadership like Nancy Pelosi have finally spoken out against the violence.


In President Trump's response to Charlottesville, he made two moral comparisons/equivalencies between the left and right protesters there. One comparison was the claim that there were good people on both sides--well, no, there really was nothing good about the right fringe protesters. The second comparison was that both sides came to fight and came ready for violence. That comparison was roundly criticized at first by the press/left, but that started falling apart within days. All the previous violence from antifa and similar groups was minimized and not paid attention to, and this violence by fringy leftists started during the campaign but was never acknowledged or condemned by the left.

I'm hopeful that we are at a turning point. Maybe both left and right can agree that violence in opposition to the others' politics is off limits.
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02-09-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
Why are people making this partisan? It's not.

Some are peaceful and carry signs and hold speeches, some are armed and spoiling for a fight.

The former are practicing free speech, the latter want to squash it.

No partisanship needed.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-09-2017, 08:56 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 08:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  Why are people making this partisan? It's not.

Some are peaceful and carry signs and hold speeches, some are armed and spoiling for a fight.

The former are practicing free speech, the latter want to squash it.

No partisanship needed.

It's partisan because of the political position the violent demonstrators is taking, and because (until now) nobody on the left cared about violence by this fringe at right wing rallies. I think that is changing as I point out, but only now with voices on the left willing to speak out about this violence can there be any claim to a non-partisan opposition to violence. Before recent weeks, opposition to violence only occurred through a partisan lens. But I prefer this to be a non-partisan issue. I think recent changes as I point out upthread will allow the partisanship to fade on the issue. Other recent changes includes a forceful defense of free speech by the president of Berkley and other academics plus recent pro free speech articles in the press....this is good and a welcome return to traditional liberal position on free speech.
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02-09-2017, 09:12 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
If you think that the Fascists and the Antifascists are equally bad that shows your only problem with Fascists is they are a little rowdy.

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