How do we feel about Antifa?
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02-09-2017, 09:20 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 09:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If you think that the Fascists and the Antifascists are equally bad that shows your only problem with Fascists is they are a little rowdy.

Don't think I made any moral equivalence between the two. In fact, I made an explicit statement, "well, no, there really was nothing good about the right fringe protesters". Perhaps you missed that, or you confused defense of free speech with support of the content of that speech.
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02-09-2017, 09:24 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 07:21 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 09:03 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It shouldn't take long to figure it out unless your moral compass is really fucked up. We'll wait.

I've seen one video of Antifas attacking a Trump supporter. I'm not going to paint them all as violent based on one video. That's called being reasonable. For that matter I do not trust the testimony of those who say "the left is violent" because they are victims of confirmation bias. Also try not jumping to conclusions next time someone is merely being skeptical of blanket statements.

Sorry Genesis I was in a snippy mood last night.
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02-09-2017, 09:34 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 06:50 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 09:03 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It shouldn't take long to figure it out unless your moral compass is really fucked up. We'll wait.
Really? I think the opposite because rushed uninformed moral claims is pretty weak on a judgement scale; that kinda leads to the whole foolish in/out grouping that these protests exist because.

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It's one thing to rush to judgment, it's another to be glacially slow. If you want to speed up your learning curve, go to an antifa gathering wearing a Make America Great Again hat.
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02-09-2017, 09:36 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2017 09:40 AM by Dom.)
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 09:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If you think that the Fascists and the Antifascists are equally bad that shows your only problem with Fascists is they are a little rowdy.

That is not at all the point.

If you show up at a peaceful protest, armed and seeking violence, you are squashing free speech.

Political orientation is irrelevant.

Besides, in Charlottesville the fascists were even more heavily armed than the antifascists.

I see both groups on that occasion as armed rival gangs.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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02-09-2017, 10:38 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 09:34 AM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 06:50 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Really? I think the opposite because rushed uninformed moral claims is pretty weak on a judgement scale; that kinda leads to the whole foolish in/out grouping that these protests exist because.

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It's one thing to rush to judgment, it's another to be glacially slow. If you want to speed up your learning curve, go to an antifa gathering wearing a Make America Great Again hat.
So to solve a curiosity, be a deliberate troll?

I'm sorry but I think all the perspectives your giving support to in these posts pushes prejudice (not saying you're being so) but what you're saying to so is telling people to be so... as if that's not the problem.

You're supporting group judgement and labeling as if it's not basically the point against what has caused the recent outlash at them accusing and harassing people rashly.

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02-09-2017, 11:28 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 07:21 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  
(01-09-2017 09:03 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  It shouldn't take long to figure it out unless your moral compass is really fucked up. We'll wait.

I've seen one video of Antifas attacking a Trump supporter. I'm not going to paint them all as violent based on one video. That's called being reasonable. For that matter I do not trust the testimony of those who say "the left is violent" because they are victims of confirmation bias. Also try not jumping to conclusions next time someone is merely being skeptical of blanket statements.
No offense intended at all brother but if that's the case I'd have to say your not even looking. It's dozens and dozens and it's not just Trump supporters. They have attacked BLM members, People wearing the wrong type of shirt, Journos, Trump supporters, people they suspect of being trump supporters, Liberal protesters who don't like them being there, and repeatedly members of the police. Hell there is one video of a violent AntiFa member attacking some guy who has his mask and shit yanked off and a couple minutes later some other Antifa guys run into him call him a Nazi and proceed to kick the shit outta him, which is kinda funny in a morbid way.
I've seen video of a guy earlier in the year standing on a street corner with his camera phone recording and some asshole on a bike rides up and just sucker punches the guy for no reason right in front of the cops. They arrest him and while doing so all the AntiFa guys start actively lying telling the cops it was self defense.

There are a couple dozen videos just from Berkeley and San Fran over the weekend of them instigating violence, often attacking people 40 on 1. It's systemic and the longer it goes unchecked the worse it's gonna get.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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02-09-2017, 11:40 AM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 09:36 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(02-09-2017 09:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If you think that the Fascists and the Antifascists are equally bad that shows your only problem with Fascists is they are a little rowdy.

That is not at all the point.

If you show up at a peaceful protest, armed and seeking violence, you are squashing free speech.

Political orientation is irrelevant.

Besides, in Charlottesville the fascists were even more heavily armed than the antifascists.

I see both groups on that occasion as armed rival gangs.

I'll stand with anybody against fascism, until the people I'm standing with start looking for a fight.

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02-09-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(01-09-2017 11:55 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Sorry for not posting a link folks. That was uncharacteristically sloppy of me and I don't know what I was thinking. That said it's hard to find good links as most outlets on the left have ignored it entirely or reported so disgustingly biased and the ones on the right are inflammatory tot he point it's hard to separate a lot of fact from fiction. The link Jerry gave in #55 is good enough...though it's bias is painfully obvious, and a thank you to you mate doin' my job for me haha

Basically there was supposed to be an anti-Marxist rally which was falsely labeled on social media as a "White supremacist and Alt-right" rally. The rally was canceled after receiving threats from left leaning group BAMN (an organizer of which by the name of Yvette Felarca was arrested on assault, participating in a riot, and instigating a riot earlier this year). Members of Antifa and BAMN mixed in with people who were there to peacefully protest (an event that didn't happen) and proceeded to instigate violence on the few people for the rally that still showed up, as well as random people passing by, assaulted multiple journalists as well as stole or attempted to steal and destroy their cameras, as well as assaulting cops who did almost nothing to prevent the violence, as they were ordered to stand down and let Antifa have the area, a move that is deeply troubling to me on a great many levels.

That's the who what and the where of for the most part, but a few things I want to add that are related and upset me personally so feel no obligation to keep reading as it's mostly just shit I can't stand lol


This shit is depressing. You have politicians outright lying and trying to shut down peoples right to free speech, peaceful rally attendees with their hands above their heads being assaulted without provocation or just cause even when they cancel the "offending" rally, multiple journos are being targeted (even when they are on the same side), people are defying the police prohibition of weapons and facing no consequences, and the rule of law seems entirely absent. Political discourse is so toxic that the type of shirt you wear is enough to be assaulted and robbed, you either stand with with AntiFa or they will consider ANYONE a Nazi white supremacist including transgender female speakers, African-Americans, or Latinos.

Personally and you can all debate me if ya like, but as far as I'm concerned these mask wearing weapon wielding cunts should be classified as domestic terrorists and be arrested and tried as such. If we on the left continue to both turn a blind eye, or in some cases openly support, these cunts we are ceding our rights to a just and civil society. We are all to busy in the meme factory running headlines making a big deal about the POTUS squinting at the sun to make the effort though it seems. If we don't nip this shit in bud right now it's gonna haunt us for a generation or more politically.

What he fuck happened to the old Liberal mindset of "I disagree with what you say but I'll defend to the death for your right to say it"? This shit is depressing.

WD,

Thank you so much for this! Your explanation was far better than anything I have tried to read.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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02-09-2017, 12:01 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 09:12 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If you think that the Fascists and the Antifascists are equally bad that shows your only problem with Fascists is they are a little rowdy.
Not sure who this is directed at but I'll take a stab none the less.


This narrative is just silly. AntiFa can call itself anti-fascist till it's blue in the face, but I'll judge them based on their actions and based on their actions they are in NO WAY an anti-fascist organization now. They are not just targeting "fascists" they are targeting anyone they don't like even if it's for stupid reasons. Attacking free speech, vandalizing property, assaulting journos, showing up to peaceful rallies that have NOTHING TO DO with fascism armed with prohibited weapons, attacking police, assaulting other counter protesters on their own political side because they don't want the thuggery at their protest, and repeatedly instigating violence and inciting riots.

These are not the fruits of people wanting to fight against fascism, these are the fruits of people who want to use political violence to stifle ALL opposing views.


I have a great deal many issues with white supremacists, neo-nazis, and people espousing fascistic ideals but at the end of the day words are words and violence is violence and I absolutely refuse to give any motherfucker a free pass because their violence is aimed at what many on the left seem to view as "the right people".

AntiFa is as anti-fascist as Ken Hamm is an atheist.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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02-09-2017, 12:03 PM
RE: How do we feel about Antifa?
(02-09-2017 12:01 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  WD,

Thank you so much for this! Your explanation was far better than anything I have tried to read.

I'm extremely glad I could help! Your praise made my day! Heart

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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