How do you explain deaf people being healed?
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05-03-2017, 11:27 AM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 11:23 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 11:19 AM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  There are people still afraid of the dark who don't believe in monsters/ghosts.... that same analogy is true for me. For example, although I don't believe in God, I still fear hell every now n then. I don't know if you've ever been a Christian but faith is not a switch you can just turn off

How can you believe that someone is healed by something you claim not to believe in?

Do you see how this makes no sense?

You don't believe in god but you think faith healing...which requires a belief in god...could be a thing.

I suck at math but this doesn't add up.

To break it down further...the man in that video wasn't healed of anything unless it was an empty wallet. What he got from the experience was some cash.

I understand you completely. But at no point did I ever say I believe in faith healing. Even if faith healing were real, I would bet there was a natural explanation for it before I ever thought it came from a God.
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05-03-2017, 11:29 AM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 11:13 AM)Anjele Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 11:10 AM)jennybee Wrote:  It's brainwashing. It's the default when you don't immediately have an answer when your brain has been conditioned that way.

If, as DT states, he no longer believes in god then how is it he still believes in faith healing/healers? Belief in god is sort of at the core of that.

I hear what you are saying, but I also get from my own personal experience with leaving the fold that, for some, when you've been conditioned so long, even though your rational brain says this is bs, a part of you still gets scared with what ifs. It happened to me too, so I can relate. I had the concept of hell drilled into me for so long, it was certainly a process for me to kick all that make-believe to the curb.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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05-03-2017, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2017 11:43 AM by unfogged.)
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 10:47 AM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  I don't think it's real. I just have no explanation..

Bingo. If you have no explanation then you have no explanation. There's no justification for sticking a god label over it and assuming that's an answer.

With this guy we have a few possibilities...
a) he's a con artist running a scam (possibly using people playing the parts, possibly relying on a placebo affect or the tendency for people to want to go along with the crowd)
b) he genuinely thinks he's healing people but it's really still just placebo or getting carried away in the moment
c) he's doing something that really does help but it's not supernatural, just not identified or understood
d) he's able to command some supernatural agent to perform miracles on demand

Which of those sounds least likely?

By the way, the "I won't submit to scrutiny because that'd be testing god" excuse is incredibly convenient, don't you think? Why would a god be willing to perform miracles but only when they can't possibly be verified? A god that rewards gullibility and decries critical thinking isn't compatible with a god that created thinking beings and gave them free will.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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05-03-2017, 11:34 AM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 11:26 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 11:07 AM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  If I thought he was a con artist then this wouldn't be an issue. There are plenty of faith healers who are obvious frauds & since then I've stopped believing in them. This was the only guy left who seemed too genuine to be fake. But after reading everyone's comments, a lot of great points were made, so I'm really starting to question this guy

Just because someone says something is true, doesn't mean it's true. I understand coming out of brainwashing from Christianity can be difficult. One of the things that helped me was to listen to what you are saying.

Put it in these terms: Either this person is a con artist or he is a faith healer, who has been blessed by a magical, invisible, sky leprechaun to go out and heal random people (which the magical sky leprechaun could do on his own but somehow blessed this special snowflake instead).

Additionally his cure rate ranges on the same level of probability as one would expect from natural occurrences of medical treatments, overall health of individual.

Lastly, let's take this out of the religious realm to further show you the absurdity. Remember, you've been conditioned to believe religion equals magic. It's your default setting. If I told you I just healed a person by standing on my head and saying "Bibbidi- Bobbidi-Boo" and the person was cured, would you believe me? Why not? The person was cured. Or would you be thinking, um, yeah, Jenny the person was cured due to the experienced medical staff, not your headstand prowess and your proclivity for (Cinderella) chants Tongue And, I chant a lot for yoga purposes, so I'm quite good at it, but healer good, yeah, no Wink

Hahaha, ok I think I see your point. The guy is a fraud
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05-03-2017, 11:37 AM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 10:40 AM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 10:38 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  No offense, DoubtingThomas, but for an atheist whose handle is DoubtingThomas, your critical thinking skills are sorely lacking.

I accept that. I'm still learning...

Study up on Occam's Razor. Also, if you can't figure out what a magician is doing on stage, does that make him truly a magician? Or is there a logical explanation? They use plants in the audience in EVERY show. They use smoke and mirrors (that's where the saying comes from) and they use your prejudices against you.

Ask yourself this: Why hasn't any god made a limb grow back? It's always the bullshit diseases or easily cured things that these charlatans or believers will have you thinking were cured.

Use your rational thought.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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05-03-2017, 11:49 AM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
Read "Godless" by Dan Barker

Here's an excerpt that seems relevant:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Vu8pMz...rT8xY9277q

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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05-03-2017, 11:55 AM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
My father's twin brother was a self-proclaimed faith healer for awhile. He thought he could fix my bad knee, but he didn't. In the end, years later, he shot himself.
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05-03-2017, 12:13 PM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 09:40 AM)DoubtingThomas Wrote:  
(05-03-2017 09:30 AM)Dom Wrote:  Why do Christians wear hearing aids or have operations to hear again? Why are there Cochlear Implants?

As a former Christian, we never lost sleep over that question. And I think we atheists embarrass ourselves when we use this argument. It's a straw man. Christians don't expect God to heal every single disease

If their god were perfectly good, they'd ought to expect him to never have created a single disease. Yet according to their own legend, that's exactly what he did.

It stands to reason that a perfectly good, omnipotent god should not allow the suffering diseases cause. The fact that Christians do not expect that is simply a matter of papering over their cognitive dissonance which lies at the root of the Problem of Evil.
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05-03-2017, 12:18 PM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 11:49 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Read "Godless" by Dan Barker

Here's an excerpt that seems relevant:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Vu8pMz...rT8xY9277q

Wow I read the excerpt, this looks like a fantastic book. Thanks very much for the recommendation!
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05-03-2017, 03:26 PM
RE: How do you explain deaf people being healed?
(05-03-2017 11:55 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  My father's twin brother was a self-proclaimed faith healer for awhile. He thought he could fix my bad knee, but he didn't. In the end, years later, he shot himself.

> Yipes! Shocking
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