How do you justify stealing something?
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09-12-2016, 01:56 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 07:21 AM)Vosur Wrote:  I can and I do because we are all responsible for our own actions. Those who choose to gamble, smoke or drink away their life savings are no less free agents than we are. There are people with a predisposition to becoming addicted, that much we know, but it's still up to the individual whether or not to take the first step that leads to them becoming addicted (e.g. playing the lottery for the first time). I could be predisposed to becoming a nicotine addict, but I would never know because I chose and continue to choose not to smoke cigarettes. I never have and I never will. All of us have that choice.

Vosur you're a sharp guy. However you appear a callow youth with little experience of life.

I would advise listening more to the world around you, as opposed to listening to propaganda.

Your post above shows me clearly how little you know of life.

May it stay that way.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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09-12-2016, 02:04 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 11:03 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(09-12-2016 03:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  I stole a library book once. I kinda hate myself for it still...

No. Not even that. Girl_nailsGirl_nailsGirl_nailsGirl_nails

You people are scum!

Angel

Whatevers. My educated, self-serving and venal descendants who read the book I stole will out-compete your illiterate but ethical offspring to rule the world.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-12-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 01:46 PM)morondog Wrote:  You're telling me that if you had nothing but a dollar fifty in change to rub together you'd be able to force yourself to walk on past that wide open door where they *advertise* life-changing dreams? Oh by the way you're not educated, no sir, you are almost illiterate. All your life you've been trodden on. And here's the golden dream *right in front of you* and you can give it a whirl. You're that one in a million guy? I don't deny, there are those who can. But to blame those who don't. I find that a bit... daft. I'll rather blame the gambling industry that think it's ethical to do that kind of thing, to offer those dreams for sale.
I don't need to imagine it, friend. I grew up in a poor family, both of my parents chronically unemployed, and what little money we had sometimes left at the end of the month was divided up between me and my two siblings. I've been in that hypothetical situation of yours plenty of times, but guess what? I never resorted to gambling in all those years even though winning the lottery would have improved my life immeasurably. I would be poor and living off of government assistance to this day if I hadn't taken a big risk by moving to a foreign country to seek my fortunes elsewhere. I don't understand why left-leaning people, and this is a generalization purely based on my experience, are so eager to deny people their agency and their personal responsibility. Maybe you can shed some light on that. The gambling industry doesn't force people to gamble, so I don't think there is anything unethical about it.

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09-12-2016, 02:39 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 01:56 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Vosur you're a sharp guy. However you appear a callow youth with little experience of life.

I would advise listening more to the world around you, as opposed to listening to propaganda.

Your post above shows me clearly how little you know of life.

May it stay that way.
To be honest, I'm more interested in finding out why you disagree with me than I am in finding out that you disagree with me. As it stands, your response is little more than a series of thinly veiled ad hominems that fail address the content of my post in any meaningful way. It certainly isn't persuasive, I can tell you that much.

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09-12-2016, 02:54 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 02:39 PM)Vosur Wrote:  To be honest, I'm more interested in finding out why you disagree with me than I am in finding out that you disagree with me. As it stands, your response is little more than a series of thinly veiled ad hominems that fail address the content of my post in any meaningful way. It certainly isn't persuasive, I can tell you that much.

Okay.

As far as I have been able to tell from your previous posts you are:
1. Young.
2. Inexperienced.
3. Driven more by propaganda than actual life experience.
4. A right wing German who is fast forgetting history.
5. You do not see the intricacies amongst the individuals that make up our species. Rather, you paint people into corners based on the aforementioned propaganda. Lincoln was wrong, all men are not created equal. For example, some are more intelligent than others.

Do you expect a person with a low IQ to make the same choices as a highly educated, intelligent individual?

Your propaganda leaves no room for subtlety. This is why to myself, it screams as what it is.

Personally, I hope life does not treat you harshly and you may remain blissfully ignorant for the rest of your life. Out of harms way.

Life is not an equal opportunity policy.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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09-12-2016, 02:54 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 02:29 PM)Vosur Wrote:  The gambling industry doesn't force people to gamble, so I don't think there is anything unethical about it.

No more so does the cigarette industry force people to smoke, but ya know what, they devote a whole helluva lot of time to convincing people that it's "cool" and so forth. Same with gambling. You never heard those ads - the ones where they jabber the legal disclaimers very very fast at the end, and most of it is about how everyone's a winner (or at least a potential one). You ever thought about design of gambling games? They design them so that they're easy to win just a little bit. Say it pays out $20 quite frequently, enough that people think there's a good chance to win something back. Charge is 20c to play. Payout larger prizes less frequently. Say $10000 infrequently enough that it doesn't affect profits, but frequently enough that people hear about it.

*You* personally might be invulnerable to such a thing, but not everyone is. You seem to think that if they're not, well hey, fuck them. It's their fault after all. I say it's mostly the people who devote a lot of time and energy to deluding them that are at fault. Naturally there is some agency of the person themselves involved, but to blame them for being susceptible to the lies of the gambling industry is to blame them for falling for a trick that someone spent a lot of time *designing* for them to fall for.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-12-2016, 02:57 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
Basically gambling is a legal scam IMO. What you seem to be saying is that if people fall for the scam it's *all* on them for not being clever enough. I think that's a harsh and unfair way to look at it.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-12-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
Plus all this discussion about gambling distracts from the real issue at hand, which IMO is the idea that large numbers of poor people are to blame for their lot. I vehemently disagree.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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09-12-2016, 07:59 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 03:09 PM)morondog Wrote:  Plus all this discussion about gambling distracts from the real issue at hand, which IMO is the idea that large numbers of poor people are to blame for their lot. I vehemently disagree.

Yes! I agree with you...just elaborating because attitudes like Visor's annoy me so much, and because I'm one of those betwixt and between people who's been poor and clawed her way out of one class into another, but is not as dismissive as the people who didn't as Vosur is.

It's true that many poor kids with lots of energy and smarts will escape their class circumstances. I did it. But anyone who's encountered kids with differing levels of resources knows how much more enriched kids with wealthy or even middle classes are, generally, and how many more opportunities they have. My kid is autistic, but we were able to give him lots of therapy and extra education and enrichment experiences, with the result that he has been able to get to college (something no expert thought was even possible for him).

Also, anyone who works with kids knows how vastly their abilities differ, and it's simply dishonest to assert that a kid with a 95 IQ is going to have the same outcomes as a kid of a 140 IQ. Does that mean people who are not at the top level of smarts and energy deserve to be miserable? I have big problems with the assumption, which people like Vosur seem to make, that, for example, a kid with a 95 IQ who is working to her full potential, is employed full-time at someplace like McDonald's, and is paying her bills, voting, etc., is "responsible" (i.e., to blame) for her situation and is therefore not worthy of being able to afford healthcare, housing, or the occasional vacation, or that there's something inherently wrong with people who are willing to work as janitors and barristas and Walmart stockers, rather than becoming stockbrokers and doctors and lawyers.

I've taught homeless kids and kids whose parents are upper class. The homeless kids can't afford even $2 for the reeds for the school-provided clarinets. Or lunch. The upper class kids have their own clarinets, private lessons, tickets to concerts, tutors, and nutritious lunches that they never have to worry about affording. So even a lower IQ/energy upper class kid will get the education and contacts they need to get a job and prosper, and commonly this then becomes attributed to their worth, rather than their circumstances. They join the cohort of people born on third base who believe they hit a triple. Meanwhile, it's only the exceptional lower class kids who prosper. It's laudable for people to achieve; it's not the only measure of human worth.
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09-12-2016, 10:10 PM
RE: How do you justify stealing something?
(09-12-2016 02:16 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(08-12-2016 09:30 PM)AnaBunny Wrote:  If someone can't afford basic necessities then I don't think you can really blame them. Instead, blame the wealthy people who aren't doing enough to help those poorer than them.
That's probably a good approach generally speaking, but there are also a lot of poor people who are wholly responsible for being poor (e.g. gambling addicts).

That's true. I meant to exclude them.
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