How do you love w/o obeying god?
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16-10-2015, 02:27 AM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(15-10-2015 09:43 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 05:11 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  So basically the athiest forum is a safe place for athiest to make fun of thiest without worry of consequences in order to vent frustration? Got it.

...
So, no, it's not necessarily a forum for the sole purpose of making fun of theists.
...

Did Jason mention 'sole' purpose?

No

Tongue

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16-10-2015, 06:51 AM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(16-10-2015 02:08 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Jason,
How and why was the first bible put together ?
Who decided which books would be in the bible and which ones wouldn't ?
Did a god ever command people to construct a bible ?
I would be happy to answer your question to the best of my knowledge. Of course there originally was no bible. There was just 66 books that were written by 40 authors. It wasn't until the 5th century that the Church (in this case catholic church because it was the only church at the time). And it was the church that decided which books were to be canonized. Finally, did God ever command anyone to construct the bible? Specifically no. However, he did command that his commandments be recorded and taught to all generations. I don't remember exactly where but it is in Duteronomy somewhere.
(16-10-2015 02:08 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Jason,
How and why was the first bible put together ?
Who decided which books would be in the bible and which ones wouldn't ?
Did a god ever command people to construct a bible ?
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16-10-2015, 09:01 AM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
I often wonder, having read many of the Gnostic gospels found at Nag Hammadi, how many other versions were out there, how many of the earlier texts like the Gnostic gospels were successfully exterminated by the enforcers of Orthodoxy, and how different many of our conversations would be if they had decided on other principles of doctrine by which to select those books to be canonized.

It is clear through a comparison of John to the "Synoptic" gospels that the faith-tradition was rapidly evolving in the first century of its existence, and that the Orthodoxy had emerged around the "Jesus is Magic!" school of thought enshrined in the Gospel of John, with the earlier texts selected for their (loose, and varying) adherence to the John narrative.

But what if they had gone another direction in what was deemed heretical and to-be-destroyed, versus what was to be copied and promulgated as Canon?

Most Christians, while loosely aware of what you said above, about the process of selecting the Canon, nevertheless accept that the Canonization process was inherently valid (for what other choice do they have, really?) without giving serious thought to the concept that bad choices may have been made, or that the non-total-success represented by the later-writing finds buried in a jar at Nag Hammadi (to keep them out of the hands of the Priests/Inquisitors who burned heretical works) may indicate that there were earlier, more-accurate writings about the historical Jesus and earliest Christians that were purged by those with an agenda to promote the modern version of the story, one which granted power to that Orthodox leadership structure.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-10-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
Jason, If a god didn't command people to construct a bible, then why was it made ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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16-10-2015, 12:09 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(14-10-2015 07:05 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 07:01 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Love is not a feeling. It is an action.

Well said.
So, what is love? feeling? action? charity? service?
Jesus said that there is no greater love than to die for friends. (action)
So, sacrifice(action) is the highest expression of love.

So according to Jesus, death is the standard of value.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-10-2015, 12:17 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(16-10-2015 11:34 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Jason, If a god didn't command people to construct a bible, then why was it made ?
Well ask yourself. Why would you compile 66 books into one book?
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16-10-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(16-10-2015 09:01 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I often wonder, having read many of the Gnostic gospels found at Nag Hammadi, how many other versions were out there, how many of the earlier texts like the Gnostic gospels were successfully exterminated by the enforcers of Orthodoxy, and how different many of our conversations would be if they had decided on other principles of doctrine by which to select those books to be canonized.

Interesting article what mentions differences, translations:

Oldest draft of King James Bible discovered

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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16-10-2015, 12:23 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(14-10-2015 08:16 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  1 John 4:7–12
God Is Love
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

I don't believe in fantasy stories, I don't believe Harry Potter or Alice in Wonderland is true. As a thinking adult, I know exactly why I love and what causes it. I don't need to believe that it comes from an invisible magic being. I understand that emotions are a type of conscious activity. They are instantaneous and automatic reactions to the things I find in the world. They are not causeless but are based on the things I value. In the case of love, it is my reaction to supreme values. Love is not a mystery or supernatural.

I'm always amazed that theists will vehemently deny that their god is only something they imagine and then turn right around and equate their God to love or the immaterial laws of logic, or other things which are a product of the mind and don't exist independent of it. This gives away the whole farm.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-10-2015, 12:30 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
Please read the hole thread before you make a comment. It might explain more to you. Thank you.
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16-10-2015, 12:42 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2015 12:46 PM by true scotsman.)
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(16-10-2015 12:30 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Please read the hole thread before you make a comment. It might explain more to you. Thank you.

Are you addressing me? I have up until you quoted from the Bible. See my earlier posts. You may not like my post but that doesn't mean I haven't been following along. Your claim that because I love means I know your God is false. And quoting the Bible to back up your claim is useless, hence my response to you. I know that the claims of Theim are completely false.

By the way it's whole not hole.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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