How do you love w/o obeying god?
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12-10-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(12-10-2015 02:03 AM)aditseth03 Wrote:  http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/sho...p?t=113296


PAGE 10½ TO END OF discussion PLEASE SEEE

It stops at page 8. Not that I REALLY want to read this nonsense.

And may I say, you are very patient with these people.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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12-10-2015, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2015 01:57 PM by WillemRM.)
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
How do you love without obeying god?

You could ask them how they can really love if they have no other option. They have to love Jesus because the Bible says to obey God.

So love doesn' t exist to them except by submission. You could pity them for apparently not being able to find real unconditional love in real life and have to do with an imaginary one by adapting faith.

There was a line that read: where do you get Jesus is a violence follower?

He used violence to clean the temple and he hat armed followers, he explicitly told some of them to go and buy two swords somewhere in the gospels.

Or is there something wrong with this argument, something to get away with it ?

I have no experience dealing with this kind of christians. Mostly they do the opposite, assuring that no matter what Jesus/God loves you.

Once they're in a state of mind that something as common and natural as love is only reserved for those obeying to their greed, they're beyond reason.
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12-10-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
You love the same way.
All people are created in image of God. All people are literally spirit children of God. God loves. It means that all people(children of God) have ability to love and to do good.

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12-10-2015, 03:07 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(12-10-2015 01:54 PM)WillemRM Wrote:  You could ask them how they can really love if they have no other option. They have to love Jesus because the Bible says to obey God.
So love doesn' t exist to them except by submission. You could pity them for apparently not being able to find real unconditional love in real life and have to do with an imaginary one by adapting faith.
Very good point(argument).
What is love? When you tell me what love is I will tell you what Jesus meant when He gave commandment " love Me(God) and love one another".

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12-10-2015, 09:04 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
Quote:What is love? When you tell me what love is I will tell you what Jesus meant when He gave commandment " love Me(God) and love one another".

In my philosophy about christianity Jesus meant in this commandment to love god. He was not speaking about himself. I even think he was only referring to the "god" inside everybody, the "Kingdom within". So actually what he's saying is : first you must or you must try to love yourself, and then love one another. Jesus only came for the people who are not able to find their inner god without his help or, if it doesn't work, to provide a substitute, himself. All this is very disputable.

What is love you ask. According to biochemists its a couple of substances inside your body which make you feel good without having to take drugs. It is the most pleasant state of mind you can reach without losing your mind. It also means to take care and to cherish.
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13-10-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(12-10-2015 09:04 PM)WillemRM Wrote:  In my philosophy about christianity Jesus meant in this commandment to love god. He was not speaking about himself. I even think he was only referring to the "god" inside everybody, the "Kingdom within". So actually what he's saying is : first you must or you must try to love yourself, and then love one another. Jesus only came for the people who are not able to find their inner god without his help or, if it doesn't work, to provide a substitute, himself. All this is very disputable.
Thanks for sharing your understanding of philosophy about Christianity.
But you said something interesting. Kind of a question:

How can you command to love someone? to love God, neighbor.

Or, how can you love your enemy? How can you love someone who offends you or hurts you?
Is it even possible? If not then why did Jesus say to do what is not possible to do?

Jesus also said: "be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect". WHAT?!
How can I be perfect as God? Is it even possible? No way. Then why does Jesus tell me to be perfect as God?

The answer: To be perfect, to love God, to love neighbor, to love enemy is the goal. it takes hard work sometimes.

When Jesus says to love someone, to be perfect He wants us first to have faith that it is possible to become perfect, it is possible to love enemy. When we have faith we start to act. When we act according to our faith we start to see some results.
It calls personal progress.
Jesus wants us to grow and to learn - to love like He does.
How did Jesus love people? He did SERVICE, He HELPED them.
If I start to help my neighbor, if I do service I may start to like my neighbor. We may even become best friends. I may start to LOVE my best friend.
The same with my enemy. The same with my God. If I serve God having faith I WILL start to love Him.

So, when God says: do something or do not do something, He doesn't expect me to do it perfectly as He does this. He expects me to work towards it. And there will be good fruit/results of my labor.

(12-10-2015 09:04 PM)WillemRM Wrote:  What is love you ask. According to biochemists its a couple of substances inside your body which make you feel good without having to take drugs. It is the most pleasant state of mind you can reach without losing your mind. It also means to take care and to cherish.
Thank you for the answer. When I start to take care of someone I may start to love this person and cherish and it will make me feel good without taking drugs.
It calls "pure love of Christ"
My goal is to learn to love others with this kind of love. If I have faith in Christ and in myself everything is possible to achieve(even what seems impossible).

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13-10-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
I wonder how anyone who believes in a religion (especially one of the Big 3) can even question a non-believer on love.
They've spent thousands of years hating and killing each other in the name of their gods.
If god is so great and loving, why do they all hate so much in its name?
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13-10-2015, 02:32 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(13-10-2015 02:16 PM)pablo Wrote:  I wonder how anyone who believes in a religion (especially one of the Big 3) can even question a non-believer on love.
They've spent thousands of years hating and killing each other in the name of their gods.
I didn't kill anyone. I don't hate anyone. So, I can ask this question.
(13-10-2015 02:16 PM)pablo Wrote:  If god is so great and loving, why do they all hate so much in its name?
Because
1. they are not perfect
2. they follow false teachings/philosophies of men

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13-10-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
(13-10-2015 02:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(13-10-2015 02:16 PM)pablo Wrote:  I wonder how anyone who believes in a religion (especially one of the Big 3) can even question a non-believer on love.
They've spent thousands of years hating and killing each other in the name of their gods.
I didn't kill anyone. I don't hate anyone. So, I can ask this question.
(13-10-2015 02:16 PM)pablo Wrote:  If god is so great and loving, why do they all hate so much in its name?
Because
1. they are not perfect
2. they follow false teachings/philosophies of men

You may not be doing the killing yourself, but your god endorses it.
The false teachings you speak of include all the man-made religions that claim divinity.
You cling to the ancient ideas of brutal, stupid people.
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13-10-2015, 03:39 PM
RE: How do you love w/o obeying god?
Of course you love without obeying any god the same way you love any other day, god obviously doesn't come into it.

When debates are started with really stupid and clearly biased questions like that it really bothers me too. It often feels almost like a loaded question even if it doesn't technically quite reach that level of fallacy. It just has that funny "ugh, not this shit" feeling to it you know?
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