How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
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13-02-2012, 08:14 AM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2012 08:36 AM by Zat.)
How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
I am not a very patient or tolerant man, as it has been pointed out to me on several occasions.

I am aware of that.

I find it VERY frustrating when I am unable to communicate ideas that are obvious to me and I try very hard to explain them as clearly and logically as I can.

I am not saying that all my ideas make sense, but that is not the point. The point is that I am open to change my mind if a counter-argument convinces me about a mistake I had made.

This happens rarely -- usually it ends up going around in circles and getting nowhere.

And, of course, there are the odd really stupid people.

The most futile of human endeavors is telling stupid people that they are stupid people.

First of all: they won’t see it (how could they?) and will be mad and want to strike back, which is often counter-productive.

Second, it won't make the world a better place (or him smarter), as a consequence.

Yet, I find myself doing it with increasing frequency.

The only reason I can think of is venting despair over the general hypocrisy and lack of intelligence of average humanity, as they go on their merry ways screwing up almost anything they touch.

However, even though it will not make the world a better place, it is a wonderful method of self-therapy: stating and restating observed facts and logical connections will help save one’s sanity in an insane world.

Still, I would like to be a more patient, more tolerant, more understanding person, because I do care about my fellow human beings and would like to help people figure things out -- or, failing that, learn new ideas and maybe identify mistakes in my own philosophy.

So, if anyone has any method, technique, advice on how to achieve that, I would be very happy to hear that. Undecided
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13-02-2012, 08:26 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
I would try not to be so proud Zat. You may not be the sharpest tool in the box. I wont discus your intelligence because I think you are right on allot of topics. But I have seen other ones I didn't agree with you. I'm no debate master and would get ate up. You get more fly's with honey than you do with vinegar. You do tend to make people feel stupid. Their is a nice way to tell someone that you think their wrong. Now if the person is a troll have at him. I do respect you and what you say. I have learned allot from what you have wrote. Keep it civil till you get attacked.
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13-02-2012, 08:30 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
You misunderstood NEOA. I am not proud. I don't think I am the smartest.

This thread is not about that.

I am sure that everybody agrees that there are some really stupid people in the world.

Some people are better dealing with it than I am.

I am hoping to get some advice on how they do it.

I am hoping to learn something.

That's all. Smile
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13-02-2012, 08:43 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
(13-02-2012 08:30 AM)Zat Wrote:  I am sure that everybody agrees that there are some really stupid people in the world.

Now if only we could agree who they are...
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13-02-2012, 08:49 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
(13-02-2012 08:43 AM)morondog Wrote:  Now if only we could agree who they are...

Schiller thought that 'Stupid' was the deadliest force in the Universe: "Against stupidity the very Gods themselves contend in vain", he says, and I am often tempted to agree with him. Isaac Asimov agreed with Schiller, to the point of using "The Gods Themselves" as the title of one of his best novels.

I have read a few good books on these subjects, among them Lyall Watson's "Dark Nature - A Natural History of Evil"; James Welles's "The Story of Stupidity" and Paul Tabori's "History of Stupidity".

I see two major 'forces' destroying the world: evil and stupidity. I have been wondering for many years now: which of the two is the more potent force. Often I think that 'evil' is more deadly but 'stupid' is more numerous and 'evil' could not triumph without 'stupid'.

However, I digress.

This thread was created in the hope that I would get some useful advice on how to cope with people whom I consider 'stupid' in a particular situation. Huh
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13-02-2012, 08:53 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
Try this:

1. Start by assuming the person is not a fool.

2. Look/listen/read carefully what they have to say and then carefully identify your points of agreement and disagreement. Try to understand the base of common agreement so that you can identify the point of departure in agreement. Look at the areas of disagreement - is it due to contrary facts, or due to contrary analysis of those facts, or of different speculations?

3. Point out the specific points of disagreement and provide facts, references and/or logic that explain why you see it differently. Try to avoid snark - go for more pith.

4. Await their response. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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13-02-2012, 08:53 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
I have people I have to deal with that hate the sight of me. I would say them people are stupid. They look at my skin and have preconceived notions on what i think and am all about. If I was even darker I know their would be a cross burning in my yard. I think most would agree them people are stupid. I have to talk to them at the stores. I can see the look in their face when I walk in. I over look it and show them i am bigger than their small thinking. Once they get to know me they find out I am NOT the boogie man. You will have them die hard raciest and I really don't give them any thought. Each year they get less and people like me grow stronger. You must over look foolishness. You will become one of the fools trying to change a fools mind. You cant change someone who don't want to be changed. You cant teach someone who wont learn.
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13-02-2012, 08:58 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
(13-02-2012 08:53 AM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  You must over look foolishness. You will become one of the fools trying to change a fools mind. You can't change someone who don't want to be changed. You can't teach someone who won't learn.

Spoken like a man with real life intelligence.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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13-02-2012, 09:23 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
(13-02-2012 08:53 AM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  You must over look foolishness. You will become one of the fools trying to change a fools mind. You cant change someone who don't want to be changed. You cant teach someone who wont learn.

We seem to have an intrinsic feel for what evil means. It is malevolence, It is in-human, it is a betrayal of our very essence.

Stupidity is suspect. Is it real stupidity, or just laziness, willful ignorance, a matter of choice?

There is no doubt in my mind that there is genuine stupidity, as physical disability of making conceptual operations, discerning pattern, recognizing cause and effect relationships.

But there is, also, the other kind (the kind I am talking about in this thread). The willful stupidity. The matter of convenience, the lack of intellectual integrity, the cowardly compromise, the selling out of the soul.

The 'evil-and-smart' ones know this and they do everything in their power to encourage this kind of stupidity, by their control over education and mainstream media.

If we want to fight these bastards, this is the front line, because this is what they draw their main support from. As I mentioned before, it is a symbiotic relationship and we have to fight it, expose it, destroy it wherever we can.

I can't just walk away, shrugging it off!


There must be a way to deal with it. Huh
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13-02-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: How do you suffer 'fools' gladly?
I think you may be mistaking disagreement with stupidity, as though any conclusion rather than the one you have made must be made out of willful ignorance. I've watched your threads and I would say this is the case, which is the reason I have not participated.
Every one of them has seemed less like an invitation for debate and more as a lecture on how things are. I may be wrong as things tend toget lost in text that would otherwise be obvious in person.

Either way I'd say te best way to deal with genuinely stupid people, the kind that use willful ignorance as an arguing tactic is to kindly move along, not paying them the slightest bit of attention.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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