How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
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27-09-2014, 09:20 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(27-09-2014 04:28 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-09-2014 02:04 PM)Anjele Wrote:  He's only back because no one else will put up with him. He has scoured the web for a home and he ended up back here. Almost brings a tear to my eye. Sadcryface2

I'm still quite welcome at AF.

Tolerated. You are tolerated there and you are tolerated here. Your disingenuous and often intentionally deceitful mode of operation does not leave you much room for being welcome much of anywhere really.

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27-09-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(27-09-2014 02:04 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(27-09-2014 02:02 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I wonder if the invitation to the troll dinner is what brought him back ?

He's only back because no one else will put up with him. He has scoured the web for a home and he ended up back here. Almost brings a tear to my eye. Sadcryface2

Either that, or he's so firmly lodged his head up his ass that he needs a couple month break form time to time in order to pry his head out of said ass with a crowbar. Now he's back, and more ready than ever to shove he head right back where it belongs; squarely up his ass.

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27-09-2014, 10:34 PM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2014 11:36 PM by DLJ.)
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(27-09-2014 06:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  ...
I am talking about emergence of a lineage of life itself.
...

I'm just wondering which bit of me contains the life.

I sliced a little bit off me earlier in the kitchen. I hope that wasn't the life bit.

I noticed in the shower that some hairs were no longer attached to me. I hope they didn't contain my life.

Maybe the first hair that god ever created had some life injected into it to make it grow and the hairs I flushed away contain some of that original life-essence.

I wonder what was the mechanism by which god injected that life into my now lifeless hairs.

Dodgy

Or maybe all my parts are lifeless and life is just an holistic label one applies to a superstructure with an intentional stance.

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27-09-2014, 11:00 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
There's nothing wrong with having a sense of wonder about our universe and the origin of man. Even if you want to believe a ''higher power'' is responsible for all the mysteries that science can't yet answer. But, when people spin that sense of wonder into dogma or start trying to usurp science with it, is where I have a problem with it.

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28-09-2014, 06:02 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(27-09-2014 07:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-09-2014 11:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Sorry Sabrina....Bucky is an idiot. He believes abiogenesis has been demonstrated in the lab.....it hasn't.

That was your contention in the OP and the basis of your argument, so what the fuck do you mean by that?

Abiogenesis and manufacture of synthetic life are not the same thing. Researchers in abiogenesis are attempting to discover a naturally occuring process that gives rise to living things. Researchers in synthetic life are simply trying to build living things.
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28-09-2014, 06:18 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(27-09-2014 07:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  But our experience of life is not that it is ever the product of intelligence. There has been no case of that.

That may have been the case.....but it is not the case anymore. Venter basically proved that intellects can create life. Further, its only been assumed that life arose naturally.....there is no proof whatsoever that it did.
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28-09-2014, 06:23 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(28-09-2014 06:02 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-09-2014 07:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  That was your contention in the OP and the basis of your argument, so what the fuck do you mean by that?

Abiogenesis and manufacture of synthetic life are not the same thing. Researchers in abiogenesis are attempting to discover a naturally occuring process that gives rise to living things. Researchers in synthetic life are simply trying to build living things.

Then you have presented no real support for your argument that life is designed.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-09-2014, 06:26 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(28-09-2014 06:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-09-2014 07:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  But our experience of life is not that it is ever the product of intelligence. There has been no case of that.

That may have been the case.....but it is not the case anymore. Venter basically proved that intellects can create life. Further, its only been assumed that life arose naturally.....there is no proof whatsoever that it did.

He modified an organism, he didn't create one. So, no, you are the one conflating abiogenesis and modification.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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28-09-2014, 06:45 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(28-09-2014 06:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(28-09-2014 06:18 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  That may have been the case.....but it is not the case anymore. Venter basically proved that intellects can create life. Further, its only been assumed that life arose naturally.....there is no proof whatsoever that it did.

He modified an organism, he didn't create one. So, no, you are the one conflating abiogenesis and modification.

Negative Chas,

What Ventor did was take parts he manufactured and parts from a previously existing living organism(which was rendered non living by stripping out all its genetic material) and put them together to make a new functioning organism. Its more akin to the monster in Shelly's Frankenstien. Would you consider the monster to be a modified human being or a created one?

I do think you can make a good argument that Venter did not actually create a new lineage of life because the components he manufactured were nearly 1:1 copies components which exist in nature....but it is very hard to deny that Venter has proved in principle that intellects can create life.
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28-09-2014, 07:02 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(28-09-2014 06:45 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-09-2014 06:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  He modified an organism, he didn't create one. So, no, you are the one conflating abiogenesis and modification.

Negative Chas,

What Ventor did was take parts he manufactured and parts from a previously existing living organism(which was rendered non living by stripping out all its genetic material) and put them together to make a new functioning organism. Its more akin to the monster in Shelly's Frankenstien. Would you consider the monster to be a modified human being or a created one?

I do think you can make a good argument that Venter did not actually create a new lineage of life because the components he manufactured were nearly 1:1 copies components which exist in nature....but it is very hard to deny that Venter has proved in principle that intellects can create life.

Your point is very weak because you continue to try to conflate "create a lineage" (modify existing life) with "create life". You did it again in that post.

And even if we do succeed in creating life, it does not show how we came about.
People create hills and valleys, streams and lakes - does that mean the surface features of the earth were created by an intellect?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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