How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
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29-09-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
I will admit the question in the OP is a good one, but the opinion of the OP still involves much assumption and presuppositional thinking. You do not even have to address all the holes in getting from point A to point B in his conclusion to show his tactic to be guesswork and flawed. An example of your thinking:

Lightning bolts can be created by means of design and equipment by man - are all lighting bolts we see in nature created by a designer? No, just a predictable and measurable discharge of static electricity.

Also, man does not witness a mountain being formed just like that. We know how the earths crust works and have data and predictions to explain this process. Do you have personal experience seeing a mountain formed - I do not think so. You trust the data and facts. Why don't you trust the data and facts about how different forms of life have come to be on this planet?

It is a very simple minded approach to blanket anything in nature as requiring a designer just because man can produce the same result artificially.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
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29-09-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
I'd like to know which stage of abiogenesis blowme is referring to.

My guess is probably chemical, since they have found fossils of microbs in sandstone.

Still I wonder if he understands how long 4 billion years is Consider


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29-09-2014, 12:45 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 09:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(28-09-2014 12:29 PM)One Above All Wrote:  If you are, then so am I.
You said we observe these features coming into existence, yet I've never heard of anyone observing so much as a river forming naturally.

Take a body of water. Add more water to it so it overflows its banks, you will observe a river form.

There are lots of observations of new islands coming into existence. We can make observations of mountains growing and the spreading of the sea floor. We observe rivers in the act of carving valleys. Look at the Colorado river...the reason it is muddy is because craving a valley increases the amount of sediment contained in a river.

Ok. So rivers crave valleys. Consider
Never hear that one before.

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29-09-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 09:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Take a body of water. Add more water to it so it overflows its banks, you will observe a river form.

Sure, by my hand. Not naturally.

(29-09-2014 09:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  There are lots of observations of new islands coming into existence. We can make observations of mountains growing and the spreading of the sea floor. We observe rivers in the act of carving valleys. Look at the Colorado river...the reason it is muddy is because craving a valley increases the amount of sediment contained in a river.

Islands yes, but we haven't observed mountains "coming into existence"; just mountains growing. How do we know they weren't made by our (or someone else's) hand? We've only seen mountains being made by people. As for rivers, how do you know the river isn't simply... you know, muddy? Maybe people (or even animals, by accident) are dumping mud in it, for whatever reason.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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29-09-2014, 01:02 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 11:37 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  I will admit the question in the OP is a good one, but the opinion of the OP still involves much assumption and presuppositional thinking. You do not even have to address all the holes in getting from point A to point B in his conclusion to show his tactic to be guesswork and flawed. An example of your thinking:

Lightning bolts can be created by means of design and equipment by man - are all lighting bolts we see in nature created by a designer? No, just a predictable and measurable discharge of static electricity.

Also, man does not witness a mountain being formed just like that. We know how the earths crust works and have data and predictions to explain this process. Do you have personal experience seeing a mountain formed - I do not think so. You trust the data and facts. Why don't you trust the data and facts about how different forms of life have come to be on this planet?

It is a very simple minded approach to blanket anything in nature as requiring a designer just because man can produce the same result artificially.

That's not totally true. We can see islands formed by volcanic eruptions.

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/aug/wat...-an-island

We also can measure mountains rising higher. The San Gabriel Mountains in Southern California are growing from earthquake activity. It's slow but it's growing, or to be more precise, it's being pushed up by plate tectonics.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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29-09-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 12:48 PM)One Above All Wrote:  
(29-09-2014 09:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Take a body of water. Add more water to it so it overflows its banks, you will observe a river form.

Sure, by my hand. Not naturally.

(29-09-2014 09:57 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  There are lots of observations of new islands coming into existence. We can make observations of mountains growing and the spreading of the sea floor. We observe rivers in the act of carving valleys. Look at the Colorado river...the reason it is muddy is because craving a valley increases the amount of sediment contained in a river.

Islands yes, but we haven't observed mountains "coming into existence"; just mountains growing. How do we know they weren't made by our (or someone else's) hand? We've only seen mountains being made by people. As for rivers, how do you know the river isn't simply... you know, muddy? Maybe people (or even animals, by accident) are dumping mud in it, for whatever reason.


Oh, and I forgot about this mountain. Paricutin, in Mexico grew out of a corn field
"after roughly one year, the volcano had grown 336 metres (1,102 feet) tall." Well, here's Wikipedia .....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par%C3%ADcutin

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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29-09-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 01:11 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Oh, and I forgot about this mountain. Paricutin, in Mexico grew out of a corn field
"after roughly one year, the volcano had grown 336 metres (1,102 feet) tall." Well, here's Wikipedia .....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par%C3%ADcutin

What about rivers, canyons, waterfalls, lakes, icebergs, crop circles, forests...?

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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29-09-2014, 01:29 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 01:23 PM)One Above All Wrote:  What about rivers, canyons, waterfalls, lakes, icebergs, crop circles, forests...?

One of these things is not like the others; one of these things just doesn't belong...
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29-09-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 01:29 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-09-2014 01:23 PM)One Above All Wrote:  What about rivers, canyons, waterfalls, lakes, icebergs, crop circles, forests...?

One of these things is not like the others; one of these things just doesn't belong...
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Indeed Forests are biological whereas the others are ecological.

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29-09-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(29-09-2014 01:23 PM)One Above All Wrote:  
(29-09-2014 01:11 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  Oh, and I forgot about this mountain. Paricutin, in Mexico grew out of a corn field
"after roughly one year, the volcano had grown 336 metres (1,102 feet) tall." Well, here's Wikipedia .....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Par%C3%ADcutin

What about rivers, canyons, waterfalls, lakes, icebergs, crop circles, forests...?

What about them. They happen over great length of time. Humans, if they're lucky, live to be 90 or maybe 100 years old. The Earth is many millions of years old and it takes millions of years for icebergs, lakes and mountains to form so usually we don't see them evolving however we are seeing the opposite happening. The icebergs are melting very quickly because of global warming which is man made.

Wait a minute.......crop circles?! Crop circles?! I have a friend who has made crop circles with a board and a few volunteers friends in the middle of the night. What the hell does crop circles have to do with anything. They're man made for christ sakes. Facepalm

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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