How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
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30-09-2014, 09:54 AM (This post was last modified: 30-09-2014 10:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 09:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Thanks for posting this video. I think it does a great job of explaining what a lineage of life is. Basically a lineage of life is a tree of life. Before Mycoplasma Laboratorium came into existence there was only one known tree of life(or lineage of life).....now there are two.

Neither of which you saw "come into existence".
So much for your crap argument.

Basically this is yet another desperate stab at making religion look reasonable :
"I don't get how it could have happened ... therefore a god (an "intellect") done did it".
It's a "god of the gaps" argument.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-09-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 08:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Mycoplasma Laboratorium is a new lineage that came into existence in 2010. You can google it.

Saying, "I disagree with you using the term 'Lineage-s of life' and think you're using it to just make sh!t up, but hey what ever" adds nothing to the discussion. If I am using "lineage" incorrectly then you should explain the correct way it should be used.

Will reply to this but I have just had the WORST day at work (As in OMFG lose your job thing happen) so am too stressed, tired, etc.

Will maybe come back to it some time on my week end.

Much cheers to all.
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30-09-2014, 03:50 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
Level II Technical Data Package?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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30-09-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 09:54 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 09:32 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Thanks for posting this video. I think it does a great job of explaining what a lineage of life is. Basically a lineage of life is a tree of life. Before Mycoplasma Laboratorium came into existence there was only one known tree of life(or lineage of life).....now there are two.

Neither of which you saw "come into existence".
So much for your crap argument.

Basically this is yet another desperate stab at making religion look reasonable :
"I don't get how it could have happened ... therefore a god (an "intellect") done did it".
It's a "god of the gaps" argument.

If you think this is a God of the Gaps argument then you don't know what a God of the Gaps argument is. You're just being an uninteresting atheist parroting platitudes now.

This argument A) describes how it is that we decide if something whose origin are unknown to us is designed or not. B)Shows the origin of our lineage of life fits that description.

This argument does not conclude that God exists.
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30-09-2014, 04:41 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 04:20 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 09:54 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Neither of which you saw "come into existence".
So much for your crap argument.

Basically this is yet another desperate stab at making religion look reasonable :
"I don't get how it could have happened ... therefore a god (an "intellect") done did it".
It's a "god of the gaps" argument.

If you think this is a God of the Gaps argument then you don't know what a God of the Gaps argument is. You're just being an uninteresting atheist parroting platitudes now.

This argument A) describes how it is that we decide if something whose origin are unknown to us is designed or not. B)Shows the origin of our lineage of life fits that description.

This argument does not conclude that God exists.

Wrong-o Blowjob. You don't have any other answer, so you plug in an "intellect, by which we all know, you mean your gods). You have not defined "lineages of life" coherently, and you have claimed you have seen them, which you have not. Your crap "argument" is not even an argument. All you have done is say how YOU see this, and no one here agrees with you. We all know what you're up to here. No one here agrees with your proposition concerning the origins of life. YOU said you propose things and "check" it with people here. Well, we REJECTED your crap, so deal with it. You have "shown" nothing, except that you are ignorant of basic chemistry, and how life might have begun. It required no "intellect", and there are Nobel Laureates that would tell you, you are full of crap, (as per your usual).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-09-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 04:41 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wrong-o Blowjob. You don't have any other answer, so you plug in an "intellect, by which we all know, you mean your gods).....

Wrong dummy,

The other answer is that life arose naturally. A God of the Gaps argument would make the claim that life COULD NOT arise naturally and therefore it had to be God. My argument makes no such assertion.

Hopefully now you know what a God of the gaps argument is so next time you regurgitate your atheists platitudes....you will still be boring.....but at least you won't look like an ignorant moron like you do now.
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30-09-2014, 05:36 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 05:31 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 04:41 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Wrong-o Blowjob. You don't have any other answer, so you plug in an "intellect, by which we all know, you mean your gods).....

Wrong dummy,

The other answer is that life arose naturally. A God of the Gaps argument would make the claim that life COULD NOT arise naturally and therefore it had to be God. My argument make no such assertion.

Hopefully now you know what a God of the gaps argument is so that next time you regurgitate your atheists platitudes....you will still be boring.....but at least you won't look like an ignorant moron like you do now.

bla bla bla ... yeah I look SO ignorant, said Mr. -39 and dropping.
Blowjob, you're full of shit, and everyone knows it.
No one takes anything you have to say seriously.
You're a fucking joke, and so are your stupid definitions.
No one ever said a god of the gaps HAS to be "could not" except you.
Try harder, Great Whiney One.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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30-09-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 08:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 08:12 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

First, I disagree with you using the term 'Lineage-s of life' and think you're using it to just make sh!t up, but hey what ever.

So! Please! Show/provide evidence or a link to some new lineage of life which has amazingly appeared in reality.

Much cheers to all.

Mycoplasma Laboratorium is a new lineage that came into existence in 2010. You can google it.

Saying, "I disagree with you using the term 'Lineage-s of life' and think you're using it to just make sh!t up, but hey what ever" adds nothing to the discussion. If I am using "lineage" incorrectly then you should explain the correct way it should be used.

Do you understand that all life on earth has a single common ancestor? Every species is the result of modification of previous ones.

Mycoplasma Laboratorium is a life form that is the result of modification to a previous one, so no new 'lineage'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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30-09-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(27-09-2014 06:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The question is pretty straight forward.....and so is the answer. The way we tell if something is designed or not designed is by experience. If we find a watch we know an intellect designed that watch because in our experience, all watches are designed by intellects.
Aspects of design:
Conceptual Models (diagrams, descriptions, calculations) depicting the intended solution.
Refined design versions showing how the design has evolved over time due to discovered issues or discovered areas of improvement.
Elegant solutions as opposed to stepwise additions betraying lack of forethought or planning.
Lack of redundancy e.g. no tall trees with an unnecessary amount of wood (a designed forest does not need to be tall)

I do agree that existence (galaxies, solar systems etc) and life does give an appearance of design, it is quite cool to think how the simple process of decent with modification and natural selection over billions of years has resulted in such amazing structures.

(27-09-2014 06:04 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Now given that we have no experience with lineages of life coming into existence naturally, and quite soon to be plenty of experience of lineages of life coming into existence with the aid of and designed by intellects, what basis do atheists have to conclude our lineages of life came into being naturally?
It's an interesting tack you are taking here. That evidence of human intellect creating some complex structure proves that intellect can create complex structures where-as there is lack of evidence that complex structures can be created without intellect.
If true this may make the argument for un-intelligent creation a case of special pleading.
But, actually scientists have shown how life structures have evolved without the requirement for intellectual guidance. Charles Darwin showed how this could happen (converting from a Christian to an atheist in the process of discovering the evidence) and scientific knowledge has improved immensely since then.

If you are interested in understanding and learning about the evidence for un-intelligent creation then there are many interesting and accessible evolution books in your library. When you feel you have a decent understanding on what evolution is and what evidence there is for it, I'd also recommend you check out the anti-evolution books too. Decide for yourself which theory or story stacks up.
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30-09-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: How do you tell if something is designed by an intellect or not?
(30-09-2014 06:06 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(30-09-2014 08:41 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  Mycoplasma Laboratorium is a new lineage that came into existence in 2010. You can google it.

Saying, "I disagree with you using the term 'Lineage-s of life' and think you're using it to just make sh!t up, but hey what ever" adds nothing to the discussion. If I am using "lineage" incorrectly then you should explain the correct way it should be used.

Do you understand that all life on earth has a single common ancestor? Every species is the result of modification of previous ones.

Mycoplasma Laboratorium is a life form that is the result of modification to a previous one, so no new 'lineage'.

We discussed this Chas. Its not a modified organism but a created one. Just like Mary Shelly's monster is not a modified human being but a created one.

The first created Mycoplasma Laboratorium has no ancestor from which it descended anymore than the Monster in Frankenstein had an ancestor from which it descended. Mycoplasma Laboratorium is the first in a new lineage of life.
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